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Old 06-25-2008, 12:39 PM   #1
transplant99
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Tough issue IMO.

I certainly understand that a death penalty could be construed as over the top in some circumstances...but in this particular crime Im not sure it is too much.

most abused children are scarred for life, literally never getting over the atrocities committed against them.

Maybe the single most heinous crime in the world....maybe they should just tazer them though...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/...tus_child_rape

Last edited by transplant99; 06-25-2008 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:45 PM   #2
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I actually oppose the death penalty as a matter of principle. But to me, if you're going to have it, this would be one instance where it should be used. I'm not sure I understand how it's not "cruel and unusual" if someone kills an adult in a rage, but if they rape a child, now it meets the standard for "cruel and unusual" just because they didn't kill the person whose life they ruined.

Maybe it's because I'm not a lawyer...
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:59 PM   #3
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I am totally against the death penalty for child rapers. I am in favour of sending them to prison and every day holding a hot branding iron to their privates though.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:00 PM   #4
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I think what they should do is once they are found guilty they should just take them out back and shoot them there.

This coming from someone who is very against the death penalty.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:03 PM   #5
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should move them to edmonton and make them cheer for the oilers

that might be over the top tho, they should be put to death
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:07 PM   #6
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I am totally against the death penalty for child rapers. I am in favour of sending them to prison and every day holding a hot branding iron to their privates though.
nope, put him in prison and make him the roomie of a hugely endowed man named Brutus!
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:07 PM   #7
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Not a tough issue in my opinion. These "people" are entitled to the full legal process, and if the court rules in favour of death then off the *expletive*.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:10 PM   #8
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No death penalty, we have top notch doctors and scientist who can rehabilate these people. We have an amazing pharmacutical industry who has developed medications to help these people become normal - no need to send them to the slaughter - We can help them become part of the normals! Even putting them on some sport team may help them get their mind off those urges!
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:11 PM   #9
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what bugs me is the party lines in every thing these days.

9 jurors ... 5 liberals by definitino (or so I read, honestly don't have any idea) they all are against the death penatly for child rape. ... the 4 others all defined as conservative are for it.

does that make sense? Isn't this a more personal opinion issue than a party lines issue?
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:12 PM   #10
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No death penalty, we have top notch doctors and scientist who can rehabilate these people. We have an amazing pharmacutical industry who has developed medications to help these people become normal - no need to send them to the slaughter - We can help them become part of the normals! Even putting them on some sport team may help them get their mind off those urges!
I like this idea, they can work out their crazy urges and violent tenancies thru underground dog fighting
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MelBridgeman View Post
No death penalty, we have top notch doctors and scientist who can rehabilate these people. We have an amazing pharmacutical industry who has developed medications to help these people become normal - no need to send them to the slaughter - We can help them become part of the normals! Even putting them on some sport team may help them get their mind off those urges!
Won't someone think of the child molesters!
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
what bugs me is the party lines in every thing these days.

9 jurors ... 5 liberals by definitino (or so I read, honestly don't have any idea) they all are against the death penatly for child rape. ... the 4 others all defined as conservative are for it.

does that make sense? Isn't this a more personal opinion issue than a party lines issue?
I agree that this should be a legal/personal conviction issue more than a party line issue--but that's what I thought about Bush v. Gore, so I don't harbor any illusions that the court is in any way above the fray.

However, there aren't really 5 liberals on the court. In fact, only two of the justices were even appointed by a democrat: Ruth Bader-Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer.

On the other hand, there are 4 dependably conservative votes, all of whom were appointed by either Bush or his dad: Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts. After that there is one right-leaning swing voter, Anthony Kennedy, and two left-leaning swing voters in David Souter and John Paul Stevens.

At least, I think I have that right. As I said before, I'm not a lawyer.

EDIT For accuracy

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Old 06-25-2008, 01:22 PM   #13
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Not a supporter of the Death penalty, but chemical or physical castration would be something I would support.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:28 PM   #14
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Not a supporter of the Death penalty, but chemical or physical castration would be something I would support.
I don't think that its proven to be 100% effective since most of these urges are not sexual, but mental and based around the need to assert dominance.

Andrei Chikatilo had femine features, and under developed sex drive, and errectile disfunction, and that didn't stop him from raping and murdering children.

I honestly think. if we can't kill them, and we can't whip them, then there should be a one strike your out policy. You rape or molest, or sexually interfere with one child, and your outta there, life meaning life, we don't care about treatment, welcome to general population. Forever.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:29 PM   #15
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Coincidental to this thread, in Ontario this morning...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

A man has been exonerated for a crime committed by Paul Bernardo 20 years ago: an assault on a 15-year old girl (not quite a child, but not an adult either...). The man initially plead guilty (and thus received a lesser sentence) because "he was scared and felt he would almost certainly be convicted."

It's for this reason that I'm against the death penalty in all cases. No justice system can ever be perfect, but if we wrongfully convict an innocent person and sentence him or her to prison, there's always a chance that future evidence might clear their names. On the other hand, if the state executes an innocent, there's nothing that can be done to bring them back.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
what bugs me is the party lines in every thing these days.

9 jurors ... 5 liberals by definitino (or so I read, honestly don't have any idea) they all are against the death penatly for child rape. ... the 4 others all defined as conservative are for it.

does that make sense? Isn't this a more personal opinion issue than a party lines issue?
That is correct. Ironically, the old fashioned conservatives that usually staunchly stand by the constitution dissented, while the liberals who consider the constitution more malleable ruled executing child rapists unconstitutional.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...0&invol=07-343

The crime is summarized in the above link, and it's as awful as you think it is. Justice Kennedy delivered the ruling, and even he said if any non-murder crime deserved the death penalty, this was it.

The jury unanimously determined that petitioner should be sentenced to death. The Supreme Court of Louisiana affirmed. The Supreme court ruled the Louisiana law stating child rape can result in execution is unconstitutional.

Quotes from above link follow:

The Court explained ... that the Eighth Amendment's* protection against excessive or cruel and unusual punishments flows from the basic "precept of justice that punishment for [a] crime should be graduated and proportioned to [the] offense."
/snip/
For these reasons we have explained that capital punishment must "be limited to those offenders who commit 'a narrow category of the most serious crimes' and whose extreme culpability makes them 'the most deserving of execution.' "

*8th = cruel and unusual.

Precedent cited:
"Rape is without doubt deserving of serious punishment; but in terms of moral depravity and of the injury to the person and to the public, it does not compare with murder, which does involve the unjustified taking of human life. Although it may be accompanied by another crime, rape by definition does not include the death of ... another person. The murderer kills; the rapist, if no more than that, does not... . We have the abiding conviction that the death penalty, which 'is unique in its severity and irrevocability,'

Dissenting counter:
With respect to the question of moral depravity, is it really true that every person who is convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death is more morally depraved than every child rapist? Consider the following two cases. In the first, a defendant robs a convenience store and watches as his accomplice shoots the store owner. The defendant acts recklessly, but was not the triggerman and did not intend the killing... In the second case, a previously convicted child rapist kidnaps, repeatedly rapes, and tortures multiple child victims. Is it clear that the first defendant is more morally depraved than the second? The Court's decision here stands in stark contrast to Atkins and Roper, in which the Court concluded that characteristics of the affected defendants--mental ######ation in Atkins and youth in Roper--diminished their culpability. ... Nor is this case comparable to Enmund v. Florida,... in which the Court held that the Eighth Amendment prohibits the death penalty where the defendant participated in a robbery during which a murder was committed but did not personally intend for lethal force to be used. I have no doubt that, under the prevailing standards of our society, robbery, the crime that the petitioner in Enmund intended to commit, does not evidence the same degree of moral depravity as the brutal rape of a young child. Indeed, I have little doubt that, in the eyes of ordinary Americans, the very worst child rapists--predators who seek out and inflict serious physical and emotional injury on defenseless young children--are the epitome of moral depravity.

EDITED LIBERALLY FOR BREVITY AND READABILITY.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:39 PM   #17
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It's for this reason that I'm against the death penalty in all cases. No justice system can ever be perfect, but if we wrongfully convict an innocent person and sentence him or her to prison, there's always a chance that future evidence might clear their names. On the other hand, if the state executes an innocent, there's nothing that can be done to bring them back.
My feelings too.
I certainly wouldn't care if child rapests were killed, but it's the possibility of faulse convictions that will keep me from supporting the death penalty.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:42 PM   #18
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I don't think people would plead guilty knowing they get the death penalty if they were innocent
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:46 PM   #19
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I certainly wouldn't care if child rapests were killed, but it's the possibility of faulse convictions that will keep me from supporting the death penalty.
For me, the onus is on the courts to ensure innocent men are not convicted - not to sentence the convicted with the intention of mitigating a wrongful conviction.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:50 PM   #20
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I am against it for 2 reasons...

1-Same as March and Windsor...the system will mess up
2-Being a pedophile in prison is a scary prospect...they are the lowest of the low. So if they are locked up for the rest of their natural lives I think justice is served.

And for those of you that are in favor of this answer me this...should someone who abuses a child (in a non-sexual but equally traumatic way) also be given the death penalty? If not why not? The child is equally traumitized...
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