$2.00/L by...

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which isn't my point.

While the price of gas might stay this high, people never 'expected' it. And to tell you the truth, would the US not sit around for decades on end expecting other countries to provide them with oil, the price might not be so high right now.

Either way, a lot of people who 'drive' for a living have every right to complain right now. The market is going crazy based on 'speculation,'

And it is harder to make ends meet if you're on a tight budget HHH. God forbid you actually have to live that way someday.

People who didn't have their head in the sand like an ostrich did.

As for people who drive for a living, yea it's tough now, and I'm pretty sure NOT the people HHH is referring to ... certainly not the people I'm referring to, but in the long run it will balance out, trucking is a required input to many items, it will take time but the truckers will be compensated to offset their higher costs in the long run. May not mean much now, but that will happen. Again I think you are missing the point, there are truckers who suffer, and others whose livelihood involves buying lots of gasoline, but the millions who are reflected by joe car driver at the gas station being drama queens because they are already in debt from being uberconsumer is who I and apparently HHH don't have sympathy for.

There are alot of spoiled US consumers out there I guess is the best way to put it.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

And whats that? Running out of oil? More refineries would help too.

No, more CRUDE oil would help. The comment above also reads "I know very little about the oil industry". Refineries in N America are very underutilized right now, the shortage isn't gasoline, it's the stuff that goes into refineries. Right now demand in N America is wayyyy under refining capacity. Adding a refinery would do nothing to the price of gas right now. The last new refinery was build in the mid 80's. If they made good money people would build them.

Originally Posted by Azure

Both Obama and McCain are talking about building nuclear plants. I hope they stick to their word.

I don't know much about nukes, but they sure strike me as easy terrorist targets.

Originally Posted by Azure

Guess what, you'd think that $9.00/gallon would stop the French from driving, right? It doesn't. They're driving just as much.

Ask any economist what happens to demand as you increase price.

Demand has gone down a fair bit in Canada and the US over the last 3 months simply due to price. You really think you'd use the same about of gas if it was 50 cents versus 9 bucks? Really?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Something has to be taxed, I don't know what I'd tax in front of gasoline.

Don't ever become a politician. A tax like that would be political suicide

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Dion

Don't ever become a politician. A tax like that would be political suicide

um, pretty much every country taxes gasoline. Economists would give you a long list of reasons why it's one of the best items to tax. Just behind alcohol and tobacco.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

And my point is that not everyone has the ability to just up and move closer to work.



And whats that? Running out of oil? More refineries would help too.



Both Obama and McCain are talking about building nuclear plants. I hope they stick to their word.



Guess what, you'd think that $9.00/gallon would stop the French from driving, right? It doesn't. They're driving just as much.

Have you been to Europe? I don't think you'd find too many middle class homes with 2-3 cars sitting in the garage. They drive less. It's also the type of car European's drive...A 'fuel efficient' car over here doesn't even come close to fuel efficient over there. Our 'european inspired' cars would be some of the biggest cars on the road over there. I remember driving down the Autobahn and seeing an F150...It was the most out of place object I've ever seen.

The price of gas has already made people drive less in the US.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

um, pretty much every country taxes gasoline. Economists would give you a long list of reasons why it's one of the best items to tax. Just behind alcohol and tobacco.

Maybe tell Stephan Dion to add that to his carbon tax and watch what happens.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

um, pretty much every country taxes gasoline. Economists would give you a long list of reasons why it's one of the best items to tax. Just behind alcohol and tobacco.

Here is an idea for you, since we want to lower the tax burden on people with less disposable income, instead of MORE tax on gasoline, we should create a condo tax, ya thats right go after all those condo dwellers in the inner city who have all this disposable income from not having the burden by filling up the tank every 2 days. We can use the proceeds of this tax to fund social programs for suburbinites to offset the overwhelming fuel costs.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Dion

Maybe tell Stephan Dion to add that to his carbon tax and watch what happens.

Dion's tax plan is alot more complex than taxing gasoline.

Anyway I say again, almost every country taxes gasoline ... maybe every country. it's a no brainer.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Dion's tax plan is alot more complex than taxing gasoline.

Anyway I say again, almost every country taxes gasoline ... maybe every country. it's a no brainer.

Then why hasn't the govt raised gasoline taxes?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Here is an idea for you, since we want to lower the tax burden on people with less disposable income, instead of MORE tax on gasoline, we should create a condo tax, ya thats right go after all those condo dwellers in the inner city who have all this disposable income from not having the burden by filling up the tank every 2 days. We can use the proceeds of this tax to fund social programs for suburbinites to offset the overwhelming fuel costs.

ha, I know where you are going.

But for clarity I didn't say I'd increse gasoline tax, just said I wouldn't remove it.

Removing the tax ignores the message that is being screamed to people which is USE LESS GASOLINE!

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Dion

Then why hasn't the govt raised gasoline taxes?

Why haven't they removed them?

maybe the governments of the developed world know something you don't.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Dion's tax plan is alot more complex than taxing gasoline.

Anyway I say again, almost every country taxes gasoline ... maybe every country. it's a no brainer.

Actually alot of Oil producing countries subsidize the price of gas NOT tax it..2 years ago in Venezuela the price of gas was 12 cents per gallon

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Actually alot of Oil producing countries subsidize the price of gas NOT tax it..2 years ago in Venezuela the price of gas was 12 cents per gallon

How about the developed world?

Any non near socialist states you care to refer to?

Subsidizing gasoline is assinine. The planet is running out of crude and instead of reducing demand by financially pushing people to more efficient vehicles and lifestyles that carry less of a burden on energy you want to refer to regimes that subsidize gasoline?

Few things are more selfish than advocating subsidizing gas.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Why haven't they removed them?

maybe the governments of the developed world know something you don't.

You did answer why they haven't raised them.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Dion

You did answer why they haven't raised them.

You didn't directly answer anything I have said. Besides I didn't say we should increse taxes, just that we shouldn't reduce it.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

How about the developed world?

Any non near socialist states you care to refer to?

Subsidizing gasoline is assinine. The planet is running out of crude and instead of reducing demand by financially pushing people to more efficient vehicles and lifestyles that carry less of a burden on energy you want to refer to regimes that subsidize gasoline?

Few things are more selfish than advocating subsidizing gas.

So you starting to put words in my mouth? I just pointed out your statement was wrong, no need to go off on your high horse. Take it like a man.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

So you starting to put words in my mouth? I just pointed out your statement was wrong, no need to go off on your high horse. Take it like a man.

what was wrong, I said most countries tax oil and you reply with one country that doesn't.

I simply thought if you are saying something you are advocating something. Thanks for the clarity.

But again, remind me how saying most countries tax oil and you having 1 exception on a planet that has like 140 countries is proving me wrong. Please explain it like a man.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

what was wrong, I said most countries tax oil and you reply with one country that doesn't.

I simply thought if you are saying something you are advocating something. Thanks for the clarity.

But again, remind me how saying most countries tax oil and you having 1 exception on a planet that has like 140 countries is proving me wrong. Please explain it like a man.

I used one country has an example, if you want more, www.google.ca

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

No, more CRUDE oil would help. The comment above also reads "I know very little about the oil industry". Refineries in N America are very underutilized right now, the shortage isn't gasoline, it's the stuff that goes into refineries. Right now demand in N America is wayyyy under refining capacity. Adding a refinery would do nothing to the price of gas right now. The last new refinery was build in the mid 80's. If they made good money people would build them.

Weird. Both Jammies and IFF argued extensively against me when I said that more oil would help stabilize the market.

We're on the same page here. My point about building more refineries...well, because they SHOULD build more refineries. For the future.

I don't know much about nukes, but they sure strike me as easy terrorist targets.

US is already getting 20% of its power from nuclear, France is getting 80%. Neither have been 'attacked.'

Ask any economist what happens to demand as you increase price.

Demand has gone down a fair bit in Canada and the US over the last 3 months simply due to price. You really think you'd use the same about of gas if it was 50 cents versus 9 bucks? Really?

Yes, they still ARE driving. Maybe not as much, but they're driving. And not even $9.00 gas is driving them to develop 'alternative sources.' They just learn to live with it.

Which is why I have a problem with just taxing gas. You'll hurt the people who are already hurting, and the rest won't care.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I used one country has an example, if you want more, www.google.ca

Hilarious. Way to relect back and realize what you said was useless. Just admit you are wrong ... like a man.

Anything to the topic you care to contribute? Or just take a pot shot and run. Thanks for the google link, I'm sure I'll find most of the planet subsidizes oil right?