$2.00/L by...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

I'll be surprised if car companies are still producing many SUV's/Trucks in a few years.

Drive by a dealership that sells trucks, they've got ridiculous deals on them right now.

You mean car dealerships in the cities.

Again, some people NEED SUVs and trucks for work.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by Azure

You mean car dealerships in the cities.

Again, some people NEED SUVs and trucks for work.

Yeah exactly, there will always be a need for larger vehicles regardless of how much gas costs.

I just think all the auto companies will go the way of GM and drastically cut back production. Hell some companies might cease production entirely.

GM just closed 4 truck plants and is trying to sell the Hummer:

Link

"The HUMMER brand is a great brand and we're probably not maximizing it to its fullest. Perhaps somebody else would have that opportunity." All options are being considered including "ramping up the portfolio," shutting the brand down or "selling it in whole or in part."

Translation: "No one wants to buy the damn things anymore".

I hope the more expensive gas gets, the more it sparks demand for innovation into alternative fuels. Whether it be electric/hydrogen/whatever... hybrids are a nice stop-gap, but I don't personally consider them a great alternative.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Not for quite a while. The recent rise in oil prices have very little to do with market fundamentals. Nothing has really changed since Jan 1 to justify a 50% increase in the price for a barrel. It's been almost purely based on speculation. Add in the fact that China has dropped their gas subsidies causing lower demand. Oil will approach $100 and gas will head south with it.

While I agree with you that oil prices are in for a shock, I do not totally agree with your reasoning.

The 'fundamentals' that we observe today are driving what price will be at some time in the future. I believe that we are still globally recovering from a big demand shock experienced in 2004, coupled with an ill timed shortage of supply caused by difficulties experienced by Iraq and Nigeria. A world economy simply cannot respond that quickly to major changes in supply and demand with something that is so inelastic as crude oil.

People generally have the attitude that growth in developing Asian nations is rapid and quite uncertain. They also have the attitude that supply of oil is limited and also declining rapidly.

I would suggest that what we are seeing is a case of a market seeking equilibrium in the face of inelastic supply AND demand.

To me, it is only a matter of time before inflation catches up with growth in China which is the big demand driver (and therefore a source of major uncertainty). OECD demand growth has been decreasing since Q4 in 2005 (when prices hit $60/bbl).

US gasoline demand is as weak as it has been since their recession n 1992, AND refinery utilization rate is very low.

OPEC has been playing with their output levels since the demand shock in 2004 in a way that would suggest that they were attempting to sustain the run up in prices.

Hedge fund speculation is one thing, but they are betting short term. There are VERY few contracts betting for high oil prices long term...

[Antithesis]

December 21, 2012

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by OzSome

I am driving an electric vehicle to go to work and it cost me less. No noise and not polluting the city.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. Just because your car isn't physically putting the pollution into the air doesn't mean your car isn't polluting. Unless the electricity came from a hydro dam or wind power, somewhere coal is being burnt to give you that electricity. That's one of the things I don't like about these electric cars. It makes people feel like they're doing something for the environment when really nothing has changed, except for what pipe the pollution comes out of.

***Disclaimer*** OzSome, I don't mean this as a personal attack or anything, it's just my take on those electric cars. Don't want this turning into a "My Dad Just Got Assaulted" thread.

[Ozy_Flame]

....And the rich just get richer. I saw a CNN interview with the Chevron CEO (David something or other) and he said yes, he's pulling in record profits, but it's being reinvested into new projects. While I agree with that assessment a bit, the exponential profits they're earning is also conducive to this guy's stock options and cash flow. No wonder he's defending his industry.

I won't say much more than that though, as Alberta is pulling in a record surplus. I just don't agree with the amount of personal wealth being made by a few at the cost of many.

[Dion]

I seriously doubt it will reach the $2.00 mark.

It's the specualtors that are driving oil to these insane levels.

Then there's the threat of a global recession on the horizon.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Berger_4_

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. Just because your car isn't physically putting the pollution into the air doesn't mean your car isn't polluting. Unless the electricity came from a hydro dam or wind power, somewhere coal is being burnt to give you that electricity. That's one of the things I don't like about these electric cars. It makes people feel like they're doing something for the environment when really nothing has changed, except for what pipe the pollution comes out of.

***Disclaimer*** OzSome, I don't mean this as a personal attack or anything, it's just my take on those electric cars. Don't want this turning into a "My Dad Just Got Assaulted" thread.

I totally agree. You pick your poison whether you like it or not. Plus, do you think that it is "free" to manufacture and construct windfarms and the infrastructure required to transmit their electricty? How about thousands of tonnes of concrete required to build a dam? How about the 'environmental footprint' left by floodplains that are man made after a dam is built?

Same thing with people feeling high and mighty about saving paper by going 'digital' with their communications?... how much energy do you think is required to run "the internet" 24/7?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

....And the rich just get richer. I saw a CNN interview with the Chevron CEO (David something or other) and he said yes, he's pulling in record profits, but it's being reinvested into new projects. While I agree with that assessment a bit, the exponential profits they're earning is also conducive to this guy's stock options and cash flow. No wonder he's defending his industry.

I won't say much more than that though, as Alberta is pulling in a record surplus. I just don't agree with the amount of personal wealth being made by a few at the cost of many.

It doesn't sit well with me either sometimes and that is mostly because i am not one of the few, but the system is such that I could be one of the the "few". Some where along the way and it's not the case with all, these people took huge risks to get where they are.

[HotHotHeat]

I've emailed this chart to every American friend I have. Kinda off topic..But wow am I sick of hearing about the US complain about high gas prices. Arrogance out the arse.

[Frequitude]

My vision for the future of automobiles:

1) Electric cars
2) A solar panel on the roof of every house to bolster the grid
3) A large number of wind power installations around the continent
4) A robust and much more diverse transmission (continent wide electrical - not the thing in a car) system

The only downside is that people would mostly charge their cars at night, when wind and the sun are lower/not available. If someone can come up with a cheap efficient power storage device that charged in the day and could be used as your "gas station" at night we're gravy. Unfortunately science has been trying for that for a very long time.


I just don't believe in the hydrogen economy for the simple reason that it doesn't exist - you have to make it. There are two ways to make it:
1) Reform hydrocarbons. That's not creating a new source of energy, that's just transforming one into another (not sustainable). The process also kicks out a TONNE of CO2.
2) Electrolysis of water. This fits in with my idea above, so I can see this coming about. Only downside is that it requires a hell of a lot of water. A byproduct is O2 though, which would be great to pump into the atmosphere.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

December 21, 2012

I would say the day before the end of the world would be the peak...gas will be free to whomever survives

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I've emailed this chart to every American friend I have. Kinda off topic..But wow am I sick of hearing about the US complain about high gas prices. Arrogance out the arse.

well...i can't wait no longer!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I've emailed this chart to every American friend I have. Kinda off topic..But wow am I sick of hearing about the US complain about high gas prices. Arrogance out the arse.

Whats the problem? They also have high gas prices.

Maybe you should quit complaining too, considering that Europe pays $9-12 dollars per gallon right now. "Arrogance out the arse."

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

Whats the problem? They also have high gas prices.

Maybe you should quit complaining too, considering that Europe pays $9-12 dollars per gallon right now. "Arrogance out the arse."

They don't! A dollar a liter for gas is not high. Considering the price of inflation and the price of gas, gas has been under valued for a long time. Americans still enjoy some of the lowest gas prices in the world.

What's with the tone?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

They don't! A dollar a liter for gas is not high. Considering the price of inflation and the price of gas, gas has been under valued for a long time. Americans still enjoy some of the lowest gas prices in the world.

What's with the tone?

Ah yeah, $4.00/gallon is a high gas price. Where are you coming up with the dumb idea that the price is normal?

The tone? Well if you think Americans should quit complaining about THEIR high gas prices, maybe Canadians should quit complaining about OUR high gas prices considering Europe pays WAY more than all of us.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I would say the day before the end of the world would be the peak...gas will be free to whomever survives

When I re-opened this thread to see the new posts, I was just thinking: would have been better to put December 20.

Great minds ...

[OilersBaby]

what are you guys paying now? i always feel so bad that gas prices are so high in canada (yes i live in the usa but im still a canadian first)....people are complaining here but its only 4.40 a gallon, that would be the equivalent of you guys paying 1.10 a Liter. And people here complain!!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

what are you guys paying now? i always feel so bad that gas prices are so high in canada (yes i live in the usa but im still a canadian first)....people are complaining here but its only 4.40 a gallon, that would be the equivalent of you guys paying 1.10 a Liter. And people here complain!!

Uhhh, it was $1.30/L here yesterday.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

what are you guys paying now? i always feel so bad that gas prices are so high in canada (yes i live in the usa but im still a canadian first)....people are complaining here but its only 4.40 a gallon, that would be the equivalent of you guys paying 1.10 a Liter. And people here complain!!

I'd rather pay $1.30/litre and get gas that makes my car run well than spend $4.40/US gallon and have my car run like I filled the tailpipe with potatoes.