Alberta to have $11.6 Billion surplus

[J pold]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's very hard to make money in the music business. Not everyone can be Kanye.

Whatever doesn’t kill them can only make them stronger

[Azure]

Guys.....get back to what we really need. Like nuclear weapons.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by peter12

Not everyone can be Kanye.

Good.
Are you saying less 'arts' funding means less garbage like Kanye? If so, slash and burn! Never give another penny of government money to 'artists'.

It was brought up tongue in cheek but Alberta would be better off investing in its own nuclear weapons program than in 'the arts'.

[RubberDuck]

Originally Posted by Muta

Ouch, I think you're missing the point.

I'm not trying to be condecending but what is the point? I've made it on my own and paid my own way through it. If you are good at what you do it will pay off. If you are a struggling artist and nobody is buying your art, maybe that was never meant to be your thing.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Vedder

I have zero sympathy for an artist that wants funding from the government because they refuse to take money from a big label. It's a business, compromise may be necessary if you want to make money.

Any artist who turns down getting signed to a label that can provide money, gear, and exposure isn't a real artist. It would be hypocritical, because the idea behind producing art is that it moves people. The more people you can move, the better.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

We already support enough "artists". It's called welfare and UI. Believe me, some of my best friends are "artists". Mostly because they can't handle a real job.

Lol. I also often find that "artist" was often a nice way for someone to say that they are unemployed. If I didn't have any self respect, I am sure I could sit around, not work, and play music or draw.

I do think we should support the arts by supporting venues where art can be displayed, and by increasing access to media for artists. But I agree that all too often, people use "art" as an excuse for not contributing to society in the meantime while they are trying to "make it".

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Lol. I also often find that "artist" was often a nice way for someone to say that they are unemployed. If I didn't have any self respect, I am sure I could sit around, not work, and play music or draw.

I do think we should support the arts by supporting venues where art can be displayed, and by increasing access to media for artists. But I agree that all too often, people use "art" as an excuse for not contributing to society in the meantime while they are trying to "make it".

well said. In my experince the "artists" sitting there with their hand out aren't the ones worth of the support. The dedicated artists are the ones working jobs on the side to make money to further their career as a artist. I worked with one guy who was busting his butt so he could pay to record another record. Never heard him once complain about lack of financial support by the government, sadly those are probably the ones who deserve it most.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Meh... if you are good at your craft, you'll be able to sell it and make the money. If you aren't, then... why should my tax dollars fund you? Put up or shut up.

"The Arts" should be the last thing on the list for funding. The very last.

Just to be clear, if you've been through my posts in this thread, I am most definitely against tax-dollar handouts to artists.

But your comment is complete BS.

I say that community hockey programs should be THE VERY LAST thing on the list, because if any of these kids were any good anyway, they wouldn't need youth programs to make it to the NHL.

Then, all sports scholarships should come next, because why the hell should I pay my tax dollars so Becky-Joe can get an accounting degree while throwing the javelin or something? Why the hell should Max get his business degree playing 3rd line LW? COMPLETELY UNRELATED.

But the art kids, who actually pursue the craft their ENTIRE lives, and who put on performances for YOUR ENTERTAINMENT...nah...eff-em.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I say that community hockey programs should be THE VERY LAST thing on the list, because if any of these kids were any good anyway, they wouldn't need youth programs to make it to the NHL.

But the art kids, who actually pursue the craft their ENTIRE lives, and who put on performances for YOUR ENTERTAINMENT...nah...eff-em.

Pretty sure you've gone a little wonky with your comparisons, comparing youth sports with poor artists? IMO Youth sports are more about developing team skills and maintaining a active lifestyle in kids and alot more important in terms of funding, i don't think many people will dispute that.

Providing oppourtunity for kids > providing handouts to adults who don't want to work so they can progress in their art. Almost every time.

[Ozy_Flame]

Art is just part of the cycle in society. A well-funded arts and culture scene makes for happier and more engaged citizens, making them wanting to stay in the city (and attract new people), contributing to the local economy, which helps the city grow.

It's a simplified version of urban evolution, but a happy populous is a productive populous, and a big part of that is inspiring and developing creativity.

[Wookie]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Pretty sure you've gone a little wonky with your comparisons, comparing youth sports with poor artists? IMO Youth sports are more about developing team skills and maintaining a active lifestyle in kids and alot more important in terms of funding, i don't think many people will dispute that.

Providing oppourtunity for kids > providing handouts to adults who don't want to work so they can progress in their art. Almost every time.

Yeah, a more fair comparison would be to ask for funding for my beer league team because no one will come to watch us play and pay our league fees. I've played my whole life, am pretty good, but just never made it. Please pay my hockey fees

[Muta]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

I'm not trying to be condecending but what is the point? I've made it on my own and paid my own way through it. If you are good at what you do it will pay off. If you are a struggling artist and nobody is buying your art, maybe that was never meant to be your thing.

Funding the arts isn't about making people 'big'... it's about bringing awareness to the masses so everyone can enjoy.

Getting 'you; to the big dance is not what I care about; it's exposing our city's youth to fanastic art / theatre venues and experiences, etc. and enriching their lives with what the arts can bring to expand the creativity of the mind that I care about.

[Wookie]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Here's the thing though: right now, the state of the market is that just about every other provincial government in Canada is paying more to artists than Alberta. And thus, the market dictates that artists are going to choose not to move to Alberta to pursue their art, and many who live here will likely leave for communities where the grants are better and where there are more artists in general. If Alberta wants to retain their artists, they need to step up and increase funding. As artists, we aren't demanding handouts, we're simply stating what the markets for our services are, and expressing our intention to go where the market dictates.

Hmmm.. Well I guess the market is saying they don't care?

I think I'm about a quadrillion time more concerned about doctors leaving the province.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Pretty sure you've gone a little wonky with your comparisons, comparing youth sports with poor artists? IMO Youth sports are more about developing team skills and maintaining a active lifestyle in kids and alot more important in terms of funding, i don't think many people will dispute that.

Providing oppourtunity for kids > providing handouts to adults who don't want to work so they can progress in their art. Almost every time.

Providing opportunities for kids is more important and I'm sorry I got a little wonky there. I objected to the comment "arts should be the last thing" because that was too far. Let me put it to you like this (and I can't believe I'm actually going to use this as an example...but...):

Calgary is the marching capital of Canada. Easily. We have four community based music programs that operate marching field corps. Each one of these organizations operates millions of dollars of equipment and an annual budget of over $100,000 each.

None of these programs have ever seen any kind of substantial public money. Granted, the Stampede pays for their group, but the others are left to fund raising drives (casino's, bingo's, other stuff). And for a 130 piece corps with tonnes of gear, trucks, and expenses. Imagine what breakfast costs!

Yet, the hockey players who are a dime a dozen whine and whine for new arenas and the like while offering nothing back to the city. Whereas these other organizations which have asked nothing bring glory to our city, representing all around the world.

Basically, it boils down to "Redneck Priorities".

Moreover, artistically engaged youth tend to become artistically engaged adults, but how many kids when done playing hockey at 16-17 become physically inactive for the rest of their lives?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Providing opportunities for kids is more important and I'm sorry I got a little wonky there. I objected to the comment "arts should be the last thing" because that was too far. Let me put it to you like this (and I can't believe I'm actually going to use this as an example...but...):

Calgary is the marching capital of Canada. Easily. We have four community based music programs that operate marching field corps. Each one of these organizations operates millions of dollars of equipment and an annual budget of over $100,000 each.

None of these programs have ever seen any kind of substantial public money. Granted, the Stampede pays for their group, but the others are left to fund raising drives. And for a 130 piece corps with tonnes of gear, trucks, and expenses. Imagine what breakfast costs!

Yet, the hockey players who are a dime a dozen whine and whine for new arenas and the like while offering nothing back to the city. Whereas these other organizations which have asked nothing bring glory to our city, representing all around the world.

Basically, it boils down to "Redneck Priorities".

Well said. However, some hockey players do represent Calgary and Canada on an international scale; for the record, we do have Hockey Canada headquarters here; that's an indication that our hockey reputation extends beyond the city.

But you are absolutely right- the marching bands, the Calgary Youth Singers, the numerous choral and Acapella groups could definitely use more funding to provide them opportunities to thrive.

I find anyone who equates an 'artist' to an unemployed, lazy adult is disturbing. That is a severe misconception, and for every case that uses that excuse to sit on their duff all day, there's at least 5-10 who are working jobs for self-sustainment and funding.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

my buddies band just won 25000K
new guitars all around
bet you'll never hear about them

$25,000,000?

Those must be damn nice guitars?

Damn wasteful gov't.

[troutman]

I don't think Art should be subsidised. You end up with Lowest Common Denominator junk.

True artists will always make art, whether there is $ in it or not.

http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/200...dise-the-arts/

http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/artsde...ld_guide_p.php

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I find anyone who equates an 'artist' to an unemployed, lazy adult is disturbing.

I know plenty of lazy, unemployed adults. I bet they wished they even had a smidgen of artistic ability.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I know plenty of lazy, unemployed adults. I bet they wished they even had a smidgen of artistic ability.

So do I; I wish I was Michaelangelo, but I'm not. There's a difference between lazy and unemployed, and 'artist.'

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't think Art should be subsidised. You end up with Lowest Common Denominator junk.

True artists will always make art, whether there is $ in it or not.

Agreed.

Which is why some organizations quietly make miracles happen, and others think the sky is falling when little Jimmy has to get to hockey practice at eight(!) in the morning.