Residential Schools Apology

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

My issue is stuff like this:

On Tuesday, Harper fended off criticism for failing to give aboriginal leaders the chance to respond on the House of Commons floor after Wednesday's apology.
Manitoba Liberal MP Tina Keeper, a member of Norway House Cree Nation, led off question period by asking why aboriginal leaders have not been invited.
Harper responded by accusing Keeper of detracting from the importance of the event with her comments.


That is my tax dollars hard at work right there. Instead of being thankful that the government is finally stepping up and apologizing the Liberals want to turn it into an open discussion on how the Aboriginals have been oppressed.

Old guy on CBC just mentioned that the Liberal-controlled Senate has (or is expected to) pass a motion to sit in Committee of the Whole tomorrow and invite First Nations leaders to respond to today's apology.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

It's a serious question... Have we?

Not sure. Prime Minister Mulroney apologized for the Japanese internments during World War II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...rnment#Redress

One thing at a time, I suppose. Although in both the case of the internments and the residential schools, these were actions and wrongs committed against Canadians (as opposed to would-be immigrants). Admittedly, I know little to nothing of your Sikh example so I ought to refrain from commenting further.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Not sure. Prime Minister Mulroney apologized for the Japanese internments during World War II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...rnment#Redress

One thing at a time, I suppose. Although in both the case of the internments and the residential schools, these were actions and wrongs committed against Canadians (as opposed to would-be immigrants). Admittedly, I know little to nothing of your Sikh example so I ought to refrain from commenting further.

I read somewhere that there was supposed to be an official apology issued this year as well as some kind of monetary compensation, which I assume would go to a fund or something.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Slava

Why shouldn't the native leaders be invited to hear a formal apology to the people that they represent? I fail to see how an elected representative asking that question is a misuse of your tax dollars?

Listening is fine but I don't think that there should be a discussion of oppression after which is what is seems like the opposition wants.

Originally Posted by fatso

You know, I really hope Boblobla and others read your post and think about it.

The point isn't to make individual citizens feel guilty. Of course you're not responsible. The point is that the Government of Canada - the same government to which we are beholden - was complicit in a shameful, shocking tragedy. Our past has this awful event in it. By apologizing officially, the government recognizes and acknowledges that past event. Hopefully this apology helps those affected heal.

I agree. I hope it does help the healing process. Maybe it is just the wording or because I don't know anyone who it affects I don't feel it needed to be on behalf of all Canadians. Maybe on behalf of the gov't.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

I read somewhere that there was supposed to be an official apology issued this year as well as some kind of monetary compensation, which I assume would go to a fund or something.

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...a-d7a8eca25902

[Ayrahb]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Not sure. Prime Minister Mulroney apologized for the Japanese internments during World War II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...rnment#Redress

One thing at a time, I suppose. Although in both the case of the internments and the residential schools, these were actions and wrongs committed against Canadians (as opposed to would-be immigrants). Admittedly, I know little to nothing of your Sikh example so I ought to refrain from commenting further.

I believe that was the Komagata Maru incident. Apology was promised, but I don't believe that it has been delivered.

[CaptainCrunch]

If this helps close the book on the Residential school issue then I'm for it, if this opens the way for more litigation and leverage, then I have problems with it. This apology is more symbolic then anything else as the compensation issue has been agreed upon.

I guess my problem with the Liberal critism is the same problem that I have with the way our government works. We don't have an effective system of opposition because common sense gives way to election retoric.

IE

Liberals in power - We will go to Afghanistan and help those people in the face of the Taliban and its evil influence on that poor country.

Liberals in opposition - We need to get out of there, theres no point in being there, we should focus more on civil projects and be like roving councellers.

Liberal's in power - We support Kyoto, but do nothing about it, leaving that mess for the next government
Liberal's in opposition - We need to meet our Kyoto the conservatives hate the environment and won't do anything for it.

Liberal's in power - If we ignore the residential school issue it will go away
Liberal's in opposition - You s don't mean it, you didn't invite any natives to witness it, you hate natives.

etc

If your opposition be the opposition, quit grandstanding and flip flopping (By the way, the conservatives did it too.)

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Have we apologized yet for that boatload of Sikhs that were turned back at Vancouver 100 years ago because Canada didn't want to allow them to immigrate? Or does that come later this year?

I believe the provincial government in BC issued an apology for this recently. Not sure about the feds.

[Bobblehead]

I agree with everything you said, Captain.

Politicians *spit*

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I agree with everything you said, Captain.

Politicians *spit*

I am a firm believer that the people who are smart enough to run the country are too smart to get into politics.

[octothorp]

Part of being a citizen of a country is that you share that country's history, both the good and the bad. I can feel pride about the '72 summit series, the courageous battles fought by Canadians in both world wars, and countless other feats of heroism, invention, creativity, etc. The fact that I was not alive and did nothing do bring any of them about does not lessen my pride at all. These are all part of the collective memory that I have rights to as a Canadian. But by the same token, there are things that I and every Canadian should feel a sense of shame of, regardless of our lack of personal involvment and connection to the events. The residential schools program and the japanese internment camps would be two such events. So in this respect, I think is was appropriate for Harper to apologize on behalf of all Canadians. This was a failing of Canada as a nation, and anything less than an apology by Canada as a nation would be an insufficient gesture.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Or it could be that the MP involved, herself a member of the Cree nation, has seen the results of the Residential School Program and isn't satisfied with the way the government is handling the program.

But go ahead and view it as a Liberal smear campaign. That'll address the issue.

That's rather the point, is it not? Liberal smear campaigns simply don't address the issues.

It is rather hypocritical for a political party that has spent most of the last few decades in power without addressing this issue to be attempting to cut down the current government for making an apology. If the Liberals had any care for the affected people, they (along with the NDP, Bloq, etc) would be standing beside Harper and the Conservatives as this apology is made, not throwing darts from the safety of the opposition bench.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

What am I supposed to think about? How I am a first generation Canadian and this has nothing to do with me? Do all Catholics feel guilty about priests touching little Johnny?

I heard that this was an apology on behalf of all Canadians. I have nothing to apologize for. It is a terrible shame what happened to these kids but all the political BS surrounding this is garbage.

I assume by first gen you mean you immigrated here, that or your parents did, either way you piss me off. It's F'in typical, You came here because of what Canada's history has built, A peaceful country that has a lot to offer every citizen, a Country that truly opens its arms to people of all race, color and religion and allows them to keep there individuality and heritage alive... I'm willing to bet that some of the programs and strategies set up to assist people immigrating to Canada were things you or your parents happily used and were thankful for.

These things exist because of the work, sweat and generosity from Canadians before you. We all take advantage of a country built by the people that came before us, but the moment it's inconvenient or in this case the government asks Canadians to stand together and apologize for this horrible act that is unfortunately part of our history then your "out" - time-out from being a Canadian citizen, I don't want to be a part of the not so good stuff, good stuff and benefits only please. Must be F'in nice. I got news for ya Bobloba... there are very few Canadians alive today that have a personal accountability for this dark past... but as Canadians we have a responsibility to tell these people that what happened was wrong and that this generation is sorry about it. You are an embarrassment to immigrants who take becoming a Canadian seriously and basically an a$$hole.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That's rather the point, is it not? Liberal smear campaigns simply don't address the issues.

It is rather hypocritical for a political party that has spent most of the last few decades in power without addressing this issue to be attempting to cut down the current government for making an apology. If the Liberals had any care for the affected people, they (along with the NDP, Bloq, etc) would be standing beside Harper and the Conservatives as this apology is made, not throwing darts from the safety of the opposition bench.

I agree with this 100%. It happened while both political parties were in power. Why can the government present a united front for once instead of all the snide remarks that are being made.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Part of being a citizen of a country is that you share that country's history, both the good and the bad. I can feel pride about the '72 summit series, the courageous battles fought by Canadians in both world wars, and countless other feats of heroism, invention, creativity, etc. The fact that I was not alive and did nothing do bring any of them about does not lessen my pride at all. These are all part of the collective memory that I have rights to as a Canadian. But by the same token, there are things that I and every Canadian should feel a sense of shame of, regardless of our lack of personal involvment and connection to the events. The residential schools program and the japanese internment camps would be two such events. So in this respect, I think is was appropriate for Harper to apologize on behalf of all Canadians. This was a failing of Canada as a nation, and anything less than an apology by Canada as a nation would be an insufficient gesture.

I agree entirely and couldn't have said it any better myself.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Part of being a citizen of a country is that you share that country's history, both the good and the bad. I can feel pride about the '72 summit series, the courageous battles fought by Canadians in both world wars, and countless other feats of heroism, invention, creativity, etc. The fact that I was not alive and did nothing do bring any of them about does not lessen my pride at all. These are all part of the collective memory that I have rights to as a Canadian. But by the same token, there are things that I and every Canadian should feel a sense of shame of, regardless of our lack of personal involvment and connection to the events. The residential schools program and the japanese internment camps would be two such events. So in this respect, I think is was appropriate for Harper to apologize on behalf of all Canadians. This was a failing of Canada as a nation, and anything less than an apology by Canada as a nation would be an insufficient gesture.

Well said. Its not about making people today feel personally accountable for it. Its a collective acknowledgment of something our country did wrong in the past.

[Azure]

Good on Harper, the conservatives and the government for doing this. I just hope it puts the issue to sleep now.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

I assume by first gen you mean you immigrated here, that or your parents did, either way you piss me off. It's F'in typical, You came here because of what Canada's history has built, A peaceful country that has a lot to offer every citizen, a Country that truly opens its arms to people of all race, color and religion and allows them to keep there individuality and heritage alive... I'm willing to bet that some of the programs and strategies set up to assist people immigrating to Canada were things you or your parents happily used and were thankful for.

Actually, an oil company begged my dad to come over to Canada in the late 70s and they worked it all out. But thanks for being ignorant and assuming they took advantage of the system. The fact that you cannot try to make a point without resorting to foul language tells me the intellectual level you are talking at so I will use small words from now on.

The way that you are talking about immigrants you come across as feeling you are not one. Are you an aboriginal? If not, then I have news for you, you are an immigrant as well.

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

These things exist because of the work, sweat and generosity from Canadians before you. We all take advantage of a country built by the people that came before us, but the moment it's inconvenient or in this case the government asks Canadians to stand together and apologize for this horrible act that is unfortunately part of our history then your "out" - time-out from being a Canadian citizen, I don't want to be a part of the not so good stuff, good stuff and benefits only please. Must be F'in nice. I got news for ya Bobloba... there are very few Canadians alive today that have a personal accountability for this dark past... but as Canadians we have a responsibility to tell these people that what happened was wrong and that this generation is sorry about it. You are an embarrassment to immigrants who take becoming a Canadian seriously and basically an a$$hole.

Did I once say that I was not proud to be a Canadian? Did I say I was ashamed of my country? No, I merely said that I had issues with the wording of the apology. If you feel that it is necessary to get all bent out of shape because I don't think it was worded correctly that is your perogitive but your internet toughness doesn't impress me. I don't really understand what you are trying to get at here. All I really see is a 2 paragraph insult and if it makes you feel better then more power to you.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by octothorp

This was a failing of Canada as a nation, and anything less than an apology by Canada as a nation would be an insufficient gesture.

Hmmm, that is a eloquent way of putting it. Thanks.

[Thunderball]

I kind of wonder what kind of horrible results they would come up with if they queried the quality of the mainstream religious-run churches up until the 1970s... I bet the results would not be as bad as this, but still truly disgusting.

As well, I wonder when we're going to apologize to interned Italian and German Canadians during WW2, as well as to immigrants from Europe and Asia who were forced to abandon their foreign citizenship when they entered the country, particularly in the 1950s. I'm sure there's other transgressions too.

Not to take away from this tragic episode, but if we're exorcising Canada's demons, we may as well account for all of them.