Euro 2008 - UEFA

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Locke

This Dutch win is going to set up one helluva Italy vs. France re-match and really goes a long ways to setting the Dutch up to go through.

EDIT: BTW, after talking to some refs, the first Dutch goal was 100% legit. As the Italian player behind the net was hit by his own player (Buffoon) and therefore no foul was committed, thus the player could return to the field of play at any time without the referee's permission so he was technically the last man back and he kept Van Nistelrooy onside.

ITA pretty much has to beat FRA to move on. You can bet HOL and FRA won't be doing ITA any favors if they can control ITA's destiny.

Why was that ITA player lying behind the goal line for so long? No sympathy from me. He couldn't have been hurt that badly. Grow a pair.

Watching the game, I think ITA came on and had some great chances. HOL just finished better today.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by PIMking

sorry to jump back to Klose and Lukas I do belive that the land that they were born in was German land before they lost it in ww2 also im pretty sure that most people that live there are naturalized ( I cant think of the right word) germans.
Klose was born in Opole Poland and

This is true, like I said with Klose, he had direct German ancestry, despite being a Polish national by birth... they had a choice, and it was a fair one. Typically, by the time a player with the skill level of Klose hits their teens, they are no longer in the country's youth development, and are often snapped up by a professional club for their youth development. The problem I have is when a player joins that pro team's country with absolutely zero connection.

As for the first goal... the Italian player has to be active to be the last man back... he was knocked out of the field of play, which was not a foul, but he was still inactive, and that is where the argument comes from. Its far from cut and dry, or professional commentators (some of which have credentials as long as my arm) would not be considering it controversial. However, because its not black and white, the ref made a judgment call. End of discussion.

However, it really doesn't matter. Donadummy sent in a terrible starting XI and there was no hope of 3 points from the get go. If he doesn't send in a completely different central defense duo and staple both Di Natale and Ambrosini to the bench, they're done, and he's done. Italy must field some variant of this to go anywhere:

Buffon
Zambrotta - Chiellini - Gamberini - Grosso
De Rossi - Pirlo - Gattuso/Aquilani
Del Piero - Toni - Camoranesi/Cassano

If they send that slow, incompetent defense pairing, even Mutu will have an easy time with that, and there will go the tournament.

Fortunately for Italy, if the Dutch win both games (which is likely), and the Italians can beat Romania, they can get through on a result with France (win or draw). If the Dutch surrender a game, they're in deep trouble.

Holland - 9
Italy - 4
France - 2
Romania - 1

Ugly... but that's what they have to shoot for now. From what I've seen, the Oranje are up for that challenge, and the heart and soul Italian players are too... problem is, they're surrounded by incompetence.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

ITA pretty much has to beat FRA to move on. You can bet HOL and FRA won't be doing ITA any favors if they can control ITA's destiny.

Why was that ITA player lying behind the goal line for so long? No sympathy from me. He couldn't have been hurt that badly. Grow a pair.

Watching the game, I think ITA came on and had some great chances. HOL just finished better today.

Cause Panucci is, relatively speaking at 35, as old as dirt, is injury prone, and should not be there, that's why he was lying outside of play. However, as a general rule, defenders never go down unless they are hurt, regardless of prejudice, simply because referees do not favor them. Their lying on the job causes goals against. If he was down, he was hurt.

Still, only an idiot would have called him up for this tournament, and now that idiot has some work to do. Its important to note, Lippi ignored Panucci, but Donadoni brought him back because they are friends, and if he can't see through his friendship and the fact that his friend is past his best before date... there's yet another reason to punt Donadoni.

I don't think Holland really cares about either France or Italy. If they do France a favor, play for the draw and get shocked by Romania, they could end up in an unfavorable position. The Oranje are going to hammer through the next two to ensure they are #1 and get a softer first opponent.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

I take some issue, I can't say whether or not he would be on the team, but he would get a sniff. He is a better player than some of the midfeilders on their current squad.

Diego and Anderson come to mind. Deco plays for one of the biggest clubs in the world, he would be getting a sniff 100 percent.

I hate the view that everything out of Brazil right now is head and shoulders better than the rest when they're not even the best team in their continent. Brazil isn't what they used to be.

I heard in a tv interview recently that Deco had no name in Brazil at all. He didn't make any impact on any of the Brazillian clubs. He didn't achieve anything in Brazil football and made his name abroad. Brazil produces so many players that it would have been hard to for him to get in.

Diego was a star in Brazil way before he went to Europe. Anderson i'm not sure about, has he even played for Brazil yet?

It's all politics and there's a pecking order. Brazil would never take someone who suddenly became good.

Dunga recently took a guy who plays in Holland who was scoring many many goals and was slaughtered by the Brazillian press.

I'm like you. Not everything that comes out of Brazil is gold but that's how THEY view it and with about 100 newspapers, there are alot of politics.

Deco is much better off playing for Portugal. He's an EU guy which is easier for clubs and who the heck wants to fly back to Brazil all the time to play internationals.

[SebC]

I didn't realise that Nistelrooy and Seedorf are only 31 and 32, respectively. Thought they were older, as they've been around as long as I can remember. And I've definately seen some grainy footage of Seedorf (classic goal where just straight beat the keeper from about 35 yards).

Holland is another team I'm starting to like in the absence of England. They score goals, and they beat Italy. Italy is like the Minnesota wild of soccer. Hopefully they don't make it out of the group stage. (Also, Amsterdam is my Jerusalem / Vatican / Constatinople ... )


No controversy for me on the first goal. Players go in and out of the pitch all the time (such as to keep the ball in play). When this happens they can come back in at any time. Imagine the loophole you open up if you let players create offsides by leaving the pitch. Panucci could have returned onto the field an challenged Nistelrooy, there he has to count as an active defender. It would be like the infield fly in baseball before they closed it. The email from the Canadian official made perfect sense to me, and it makes logical sense. Keep the rules clean, and you keep the game beautiful!

Speaking of Italy though, I agree that their lineup was awful. Del Piero made a huge impact when he came in, Grosso changed the game as well. Pirlo was kept to far back... he needs to make some runs up the wing and start swinging in crosses.

France played a simply puzzling game. They were pretty good at passing it around the offensive half like most teams do in their own half, but the build-ups went on forever, and they never had the urgency to score against the weak team in the group of death.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I don't think Holland really cares about either France or Italy. If they do France a favor, play for the draw and get shocked by Romania, they could end up in an unfavorable position. The Oranje are going to hammer through the next two to ensure they are #1 and get a softer first opponent.

I wasn't sure whether HOL plays FRA next, or last. If they played FRA last, there could be some shenanigans.

[troutman]

25 refs in Portugal suspended for match-fixing:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...a-919ca3b6c72c

Lots of interesting comments on Ruud's "goal" here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/euro2008/...f_special.html

You will see some discussion there about off-sides being taken out of hockey (I think they are talking about field hockey). I'll do some research to see how this has affected the game.

http://www.fieldhockey.org/Articles/...ShivJagday.htm

PURPOSE OF THE NEW NO OFFSIDE RULE
· To transfer the balance of power towards the offense.
· To create more space around the circle & mid-field.
· To help the flow of play, more goals and less whistles.
· To make the game more exciting and appealing to spectators.

Has It Created More Space?
YES! The game has definitely opened up, creating more space and gaps to be exploited in certain zones of the field.

WHAT EFFECT HAS THIS HAD ON THE GAME AND WHY/
PROS
It has stretched the teams to open up and use extra 50 yd., 25yds. Each from 25 yd. line to goal line. This new found space in the mid-field, allows the mid-field players to make more long lateral and diagonal passes - only for the teams who like to, and understand its importance - to maintain possession, change focus of play, or make defense splitting passes.
CONS:
The biggest negative effect has been that it has taken the mid-field build up from the game -- please refer to the first part of this article. The weaker teams seem to bypass the mid-field, thinking of 'get-rich-quick' schemes. In a way they are overdoing it and shooting themselves in the foot. Many teams didn't seem to have the skills and the understanding to fully exploit this new rule.

[GirlySports]

No matter how much we disliked the Soviets or Russians (in a sporting sense) growing up, that's a great national anthem!

Also interesting that the Spanish anthem has no words!

The refs seems fussy already

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by troutman

ITA pretty much has to beat FRA to move on. You can bet HOL and FRA won't be doing ITA any favors if they can control ITA's destiny.

If Italy beats Romania and Holland beats France then Italy would only need a draw against France. If the France-Holland match is drawn then it gets more complex.

[united]

1-0 Spain.
Torres is top class, great run then makes the unselfish play instead of going for goal. great goal.

A couple minutes later Russia pile in the box and hit the post as a result. Close.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Rus/Esp is a great game so far.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

I wasn't sure whether HOL plays FRA next, or last. If they played FRA last, there could be some shenanigans.

FIFA/UEFA did a very wise thing in making the last game simultaneous, and blocking the other stadium from knowing the score. There can still be shenanigans based on probability, but its tougher than ever.

Actually, this tournament as a whole has been great for fairplay... diving is down and ruthless challenges are down.

[GirlySports]

Anyone Austrian?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...544984&cc=5901

[united]

Russia hit the bar, coming close just unlucky.
Great game by the way, enjoying this one.

[ricoFlame]

2-0 spain before half. they can really move the ball, as usual for spanish sides.

[united]

2-0 Spain, David Villa
My goodness what a through ball! Fantastic goal on the counter attack.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Anyone Austrian?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...544984&cc=5901

Holy crap, thats fantastic, they're going to be shooting from everywhere!!

[Sune76]

well russia in soccer isnt exactly russia in hockey

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Sune76

well russia in soccer isnt exactly russia in hockey

They are definitely not in the league of the Big nations... but they certainly aren't bad, and despite the brickwall they've hit against Spain, they still have a decent chance to get second place.

You're right, they're nowhere the same in soccer as they are in hockey... but they are definitely emerging, as evidenced by Zenit St. Petersburg's UEFA cup win with a largely Russian team. UEFA qualifying is far more brutal than in any other conference, to make it to EURO in and of itself is an accomplishment.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Anyone Austrian?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...544984&cc=5901

Hmmm, I think I've actually had one of theirs, Ottakringer Dunkles. Not the greatest beer I've ever had, but good enough to make an offer like this worthwhile.