Tory ads coming to a gas station near you

[Fuzzy McGillicuddy]

Stephen Harper's Conservatives new ads attempt to discredit Stephane Dion's carbon tax ideas (which really shouldn't be a difficult task). These ads will show up on little TV screens some gas stations now have.

http://www.willyoubetricked.ca/

[HotHotHeat]

Sure is a snazzy looking website.

[MelBridgeman]

come on taxation solves everything!

Edit: what a great website, i'm sold!

[peter12]

Great counterattack by the Tories.

[Ford Prefect]

Is that the grandson of Peter Puck they're employing as spokesperson (spokescartoon)?

[Devils'Advocate]

*sigh* I saw nothing in these ads but fear-mongering. The same fear-mongering that supporters of the Harper government complained about prior to the last election. Though I'm not surprised.

I'm a card-holding member of the Green party who also supports a carbon tax. The idea is that you add tax to items that cause global warming. Now I realize that many Albertans don't believe in that crap, but many in Ontario, Quebec and other parts of Canada do so just bear with me. If Canadians are to reduce greenhouse gases, there needs to be a way to use individuals greed to push them to use more environmentally friendly options (ie with a carbon tax, more people would buy hybrids instead of SUVs). The Green party has also stated that any money gathered by such a carbon tax would be returned to the taxpayer in other tax cuts.

Therefore these little sound-bites do nothing but obfuscate a complex issue down a scare tactic. Why don't the Conservatives put up an ad talking about the progress they have made thus far in fighting carbon dioxide output?

We Canadians usually like to hold ourselves ahead of our American brethren when it comes to being taken in by over-simplified government propaganda. As it turns out, we are no different.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

*sigh* I saw nothing in these ads but fear-mongering. The same fear-mongering that supporters of the Harper government complained about prior to the last election. Though I'm not surprised.

I'm a card-holding member of the Green party who also supports a carbon tax. The idea is that you add tax to items that cause global warming. Now I realize that many Albertans don't believe in that crap, but many in Ontario, Quebec and other parts of Canada do so just bear with me. If Canadians are to reduce greenhouse gases, there needs to be a way to use individuals greed to push them to use more environmentally friendly options (ie with a carbon tax, more people would buy hybrids instead of SUVs). The Green party has also stated that any money gathered by such a carbon tax would be returned to the taxpayer in other tax cuts.

Therefore these little sound-bites do nothing but obfuscate a complex issue down a scare tactic. Why don't the Conservatives put up an ad talking about the progress they have made thus far in fighting carbon dioxide output?

We Canadians usually like to hold ourselves ahead of our American brethren when it comes to being taken in by over-simplified government propaganda. As it turns out, we are no different.

The cost of Gas through supply and demand will curb the use of petroleum, no need to introduce an artificial tax that will just be squandered.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

*sigh* I saw nothing in these ads but fear-mongering. The same fear-mongering that supporters of the Harper government complained about prior to the last election. Though I'm not surprised.

I'm a card-holding member of the Green party who also supports a carbon tax. The idea is that you add tax to items that cause global warming. Now I realize that many Albertans don't believe in that crap, but many in Ontario, Quebec and other parts of Canada do so just bear with me. If Canadians are to reduce greenhouse gases, there needs to be a way to use individuals greed to push them to use more environmentally friendly options (ie with a carbon tax, more people would buy hybrids instead of SUVs). The Green party has also stated that any money gathered by such a carbon tax would be returned to the taxpayer in other tax cuts.

Therefore these little sound-bites do nothing but obfuscate a complex issue down a scare tactic. Why don't the Conservatives put up an ad talking about the progress they have made thus far in fighting carbon dioxide output?

We Canadians usually like to hold ourselves ahead of our American brethren when it comes to being taken in by over-simplified government propaganda. As it turns out, we are no different.

I am against any further taxation of any kind, we're one of the highest taxed countries on the planet. A general carbon tax like Dion is touting is regressive in any sense, and it won't hurt the people with money as much as it will hurt the lower and middle class.

I also don't like the idea of the carbon tax as it basically goes into general accounting, so there's no guarantee that its going to go towards any kind of environmental reform.

Also there's enough tax on every liter of gas that we put into our cars.

Its just another example of the Liberal's creating an easy platform that sounds like they're doing something. If they had actually done something about the environment while they were in power instead of doing absolutely nothing except agreeing to a Kyoto agreement with unrealistic targets and goals while allowing to get other countries that are major contributors to pollution to carry on as business as usual, I would take it more seriously.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

*sigh* I saw nothing in these ads but fear-mongering. The same fear-mongering that supporters of the Harper government complained about prior to the last election. Though I'm not surprised.

I'm a card-holding member of the Green party who also supports a carbon tax. The idea is that you add tax to items that cause global warming. Now I realize that many Albertans don't believe in that crap, but many in Ontario, Quebec and other parts of Canada do so just bear with me. If Canadians are to reduce greenhouse gases, there needs to be a way to use individuals greed to push them to use more environmentally friendly options (ie with a carbon tax, more people would buy hybrids instead of SUVs). The Green party has also stated that any money gathered by such a carbon tax would be returned to the taxpayer in other tax cuts.

Therefore these little sound-bites do nothing but obfuscate a complex issue down a scare tactic. Why don't the Conservatives put up an ad talking about the progress they have made thus far in fighting carbon dioxide output?

We Canadians usually like to hold ourselves ahead of our American brethren when it comes to being taken in by over-simplified government propaganda. As it turns out, we are no different.

If the already HIGH price of fuel isn't forcing people to buy more fuel efficient cars, implementing a ridiculous tax isn't going to help either.

You have to create incentive for people to become environmentally friendly....not tax them even more.

[CaptainCrunch]

/\ Bingo, instead of taxing me so that more then half of my pay is going into government coffers for programs that I don't particularly see value for. Give me incentives for changing my lifestyles. You want me to recycle, give me a tax break, you want me to buy a electric car, then pay me more, you want me to do this stuff, give me a reason, don't punish me by taxing me. Its like a parent beating the crap out of me everytime I fart. Give me money to cover it up.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Azure

If the already HIGH price of fuel isn't forcing people to buy more fuel efficient cars, implementing a ridiculous tax isn't going to help either.

You have to create incentive for people to become environmentally friendly....not tax them even more.

Bingo ... I was just in Victoria where the majority of taxis are now hybrids. One cabbie I chatted with said he saves $17,000/year driving a hybrid. I think he was being a bit hyperbolic with that figure, but he must be saving quite a bundle whatever the true figure is. He said that he wouldn't still be in business if it wasn't for his hybrid. Now that's the kind of incentive that's needed to curb emissions. Rather than a carbon tax, why doesn't the government give a tax incentive to cabbies and other people who make a living with their vehicle to switch to hybrids and other fuel-saving technologies. That makes more sense than another friggin' tax grab that once implemented will be there forever. Plus, watch Ontarians howl when a carbon tax shuts down the Ontario auto industry. Nope ... I can't see a carbon tax being the answer. It would just turn into another cash cow that pads federal coffers at a hurtful cost to lower and middle class Canadians.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

*sigh* I saw nothing in these ads but fear-mongering. The same fear-mongering that supporters of the Harper government complained about prior to the last election. Though I'm not surprised.

I'm a card-holding member of the Green party who also supports a carbon tax. The idea is that you add tax to items that cause global warming. Now I realize that many Albertans don't believe in that crap, but many in Ontario, Quebec and other parts of Canada do so just bear with me. If Canadians are to reduce greenhouse gases, there needs to be a way to use individuals greed to push them to use more environmentally friendly options (ie with a carbon tax, more people would buy hybrids instead of SUVs). The Green party has also stated that any money gathered by such a carbon tax would be returned to the taxpayer in other tax cuts.

Therefore these little sound-bites do nothing but obfuscate a complex issue down a scare tactic. Why don't the Conservatives put up an ad talking about the progress they have made thus far in fighting carbon dioxide output?

We Canadians usually like to hold ourselves ahead of our American brethren when it comes to being taken in by over-simplified government propaganda. As it turns out, we are no different.

Like others have commented, taxation is never the way to go ever. Incentives are a better idea. Although the way the price of gas are these days there is plenty incentive.

A few weeks ago I was in Vancouver and was listening to CKNW Bill Good show and this was around the time that Mr. Dion introduced his carbon tax, one of his advisors from Ontario was on the radio talking about how the positive reaction in BC about their new carbon (olympic) tax was a motivation on this policy.

Boy was he ever schooled that day. Caller after caller ripped into him about this illusion that people in BC were happy about the new carbon tax - of course only those who want to complain usually call in, but even the host Bill Good chastised them for thinking that the carbon tax in BC was going over well....because it wasn't....needless to say the advisor was pretty baffled....

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

*sigh* I saw nothing in these ads but fear-mongering. The same fear-mongering that supporters of the Harper government complained about prior to the last election. Though I'm not surprised.

I'm a card-holding member of the Green party who also supports a carbon tax. The idea is that you add tax to items that cause global warming. Now I realize that many Albertans don't believe in that crap, but many in Ontario, Quebec and other parts of Canada do so just bear with me. If Canadians are to reduce greenhouse gases, there needs to be a way to use individuals greed to push them to use more environmentally friendly options (ie with a carbon tax, more people would buy hybrids instead of SUVs). The Green party has also stated that any money gathered by such a carbon tax would be returned to the taxpayer in other tax cuts.

Therefore these little sound-bites do nothing but obfuscate a complex issue down a scare tactic. Why don't the Conservatives put up an ad talking about the progress they have made thus far in fighting carbon dioxide output?

We Canadians usually like to hold ourselves ahead of our American brethren when it comes to being taken in by over-simplified government propaganda. As it turns out, we are no different.

Never, in the history of time, has there been anything that could be called "a revenue neutral tax". Ever. The government collects a dollar in tax, and claims they are going to return that dollar to the people they took it from. Who pays for the government administration, the paperwork to decide who gets it, etc?

Add to that that Dion has already said he will not return all the money, but will use some to "offset the cost to the lowest income bracket" and you know it isn't going to be remotely close to "revenue neutral". Of course he hasn't said "how", or "to who", or "how much exactly"... but who cares about the details right?

As for the Greens, they are in a perfect position as they will never form government. They will be lucky to elect one member, and will never have enough seats to form government. They can promise anything they want because they will never be in a position to have to actually follow through on those promises.

I wouldn't be too sure that there are a lot of folks in Ontario that support a carbon tax. Ask all the CAW workers if they do, since it will mean the end of their jobs. Ask those in the manufacturing sector what they think about it. Hell, ask the Ontario Liberal government what they think, and the Premier is one of Dion lieutenant's brothers.

[Slava]

How bad would this idea be though...tax the things that you want to be rid of as a society (such as pollution) and cut the taxes equally on things that you want to encourage (such as jobs/peoples income)?

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Slava

How bad would this idea be though...tax the things that you want to be rid of as a society (such as pollution) and cut the taxes equally on things that you want to encourage (such as jobs/peoples income)?

It works in theory, but the day Dion or any other Liberal ever cuts income and other taxes enough to offset the amount and damage of a carbon tax is likely the same day I see my first flying pig. I just don't trust them to actually execute it like you propose they will.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

How bad would this idea be though...tax the things that you want to be rid of as a society (such as pollution) and cut the taxes equally on things that you want to encourage (such as jobs/peoples income)?

Or create incentives for people to quit polluting....recycle more, etc, etc.

I don't see why the Alberta government couldn't do something like that. At $140 bucks a barrel, we have money to 'blow.'

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Azure

Or create incentives for people to quit polluting....recycle more, etc, etc.

I don't see why the Alberta government couldn't do something like that. At $140 bucks a barrel, we have money to 'blow.'

Heck, we have enough for hookers too!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

How bad would this idea be though...tax the things that you want to be rid of as a society (such as pollution) and cut the taxes equally on things that you want to encourage (such as jobs/peoples income)?

Since pretty well every consumer good depends on at least some kind of manufacturing process or product that would be taxed, it doesn't work.

The average citizen shouldn't have to bear the tax burdens on products that are going to be necessary. The smart move would be to heavily incentive the companies, energy companies etc to find better lower polluting ways to exist.

At the end of the day, tax increases on consumer goods harm low and middle income people over anyone else.

Additional taxation just leads to recession and damage to the economy.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

IMO, the only thing that will get pollution (including but not limited to carbon dioxide) under control is to cap the total amount and then let market forces take effect...basically cap and trade

If you want to pollute fine...but it will cost you

The Libs are going nowhere fast under Dion IMO...

[Calgaryborn]

You people aren't looking at the big picture. No amount of taxation or incentives is going to change anything. Every barrel of oil that is produced in this world is going to be burnt. We have a world wide shortage that's not going away. If Canada consumes less oil the saved barrels will only be sold and burnt in some other country. If that country has worse emission standards than Canada than the net results is more carbon produced.

If Canada was serious about lowering carbon emissions world wide they would leave more of it in the ground. Stop or slow oil production. I get mad when I hear of a country like Norway proudly boasting it is carbon neutral. It is not carbon neutral. It exports oil. Norway would have to somehow capture all the carbon released by the burning of the oil they pump up and sell. That's not going to happen.

Canada is not going to stop production of oil either. There's too much money involved. If anything we are going to do everything possible to increase production. What Canada should do is pave the way for research and development of that new miracle energy source that is going to replace oil. They should encourage the continuing develop of cleaner methods of burning carbon based fuels. They should also stream line and simplify the patten process to make it fairer /faster for the little guy.