Open Letter to Cyclists.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by enthused

It's truly amazing how backwards people in Calgary are.

that's amazing.
And as someone who drives and bikes and shares the road, i find that to be a stupid and ignorant comment.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

And read the post I quoted regarding the 'dumb' comment. I was just shadowing his wording.

EDIT:

See above

Responding makes you no better. Rise above it if it offends you that much.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Hakan

I agree Rhettzky. It's a failure in city planning to be honest.

All too often cars dominate planning divisions because of path dependency and the advocacy of powerful groups in city hall. For example, city engineering has the highest budget of any department and the most powerful union. They use this influence to divert most of the municipal money into road maintenance feeding the cycle into itself.

It takes a brave city politician to re-orient planning priorities away from the automobile or an electorate that vocal and strong enough to make more bikeways in urban commuter zones. Sadly Calgary lacks both of these ingredients.

It's a huge lack of foresight. They can put a new lane to increase traffic volumes (3.5m) but can't think to add a shoulder for future uses? In most cases all it would take is an extra 1.2m shoulder added into the design.

I can see where it stems from though, most people scream at their Aldermen about commuting times. So that's where the City planning departments focus their energy. Traffic flow, traffic models, traffic studies... instead of trying to find ways to get the most out of their exisiting systems.

[enthused]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

that's amazing.
And as someone who drives and bikes and shares the road, i find that to be a stupid and ignorant comment.

I suppose I should have said "some" people, as opposed to just people. However, I still stand by what I said, in that there are many Calgarians who are backwards in their thoughts and ways.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by enthused

I suppose I should have said "some" people, as opposed to just people. However, I still stand by what I said, in that there are many Calgarians who are backwards in their thoughts and ways.

Just Calgarians hey?
Backwards compared to what? What you think? Maybe you are the one who is backwards?

[Dan02]

this thread is awesome lol.

I used to ride my bike alot, and the dual pedestrian/vehicle riders piss me off to no end.

The only other riders who piss me off are the ones who will bitch they aren't given enough room during heavy traffic then go and fly passed all the stopped traffic at a light. Pick your bitch, one or the other i can see your POV but to complain about lack of room then fly by everyone stopped at a light is just hypocritical because now all that traffic which had already got passed has to try and squeek past again.

as for You Need a Thneed, you should really park that bike til you learn the rules of the road dude, you're setting yourself up to get hit if you really think those are the rules.

To the rest of you bikers, I apologize if i don't give you enough room in advance. It's not intentional, sometimes it looks like there is more room then there is and go ahead and pass me at a stop light, though I might be jealous

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Dan02

as for You Need a Thneed, you should really park that bike til you learn the rules of the road dude, you're setting yourself up to get hit if you really think those are the rules.

Sheesh, I just try to point out that the current law is really annoying, sets double standard, and has unintended results, and now I get told I need to learn the rules? I know the rules. I choose to break them in ONE area, because it saves a little bit of time for everyone, saves a lot of hassle for me, and does not increase my chances of getting hit. Like I said, I don't dart out without making sure vehicles see me and come to a stop.

Either way, the only people who I ever see walking their bike across intersections are small children, and the parents of these small children when they are along.

When I drive, I see a lot of actual stupid things that bikers do, and it annoys the heck out of me. I feel like running them over, just to spare the hassle for someone else, when they eventually do run that person over.

Now, also, If I'm driving as a vehicle and I want to cross the same road perendicularly at a crosswalk, then I better pull off, and make sure that traffic knows that I want to cross the road. I think that's what some people in this thread have been annoyed about.

[AFireInside]

One thing I hate is when cyclists pass at red lights and go to the front of the line. When passing a cyclist I generally at least try and get halfway into the next lane.

Here's my question. Some say that going to the front of the line is one advantage of being a cyclist and that it helps keep traffic moving. Then the next person says if you pass me you better change lanes..

I fail to see how cutting in front of everyone at a red light, then expecting every car to change lanes when passing you is helping to speed up traffic. If you go to the front of the line at a red light you can't expect every car behind you to change lanes to pass by you, that will just cause a huge bottleneck. Motorcycles and mopeds aren't allowed to pass stopped cars at red lights why should you be able to.

To be fair I have no problem with people on bicycles, just follow the rules.

Also to the guy who challenged drivers to get out of their car just once, I'm not sure if your point was to be tough or maybe I missed the point of that statement, but I don't think that many guys would hesitate to tell a spandex clad biker where to go. I've done it before, didn't think twice about it. Just because you ride a bike to work doesn't make you any more fit than those who drive and hit the gym before/after work. Get over yourself.

If that wasn't your point ignore that last paragraph!!

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by habernac

yes, because so many bicycles are encountered on Macleod Trail.

While you're at it, we'd better ban those throngs of lawn mowers, backhoes and other slow moving vehicles you might encounter on the roadways because they'll inconvenience impatient fools like yourself.

All the time. Saw one on Sunday morning going about 10-15 k per hour swerving around the right lane heading north on Macleod.

Of course, he also looked like he was crazy and had a poster on the front of his bike, and a sign on his back about Jesus.

[ken0042]

Finally got through this thread; and it leaves me with two related questions for the cyclists:

You say you want motorists to give you a full arm's length when they pass you, right? Are you giving that full arm's length when you pass us on the right to get to the front of the line of traffic?

And if we all know that cars are faster than bikes, why are bikers trying to get ahead of all the cars to create yet another dozen dangerous passing scenarios?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Finally got through this thread; and it leaves me with two related questions for the cyclists:

You say you want motorists to give you a full arm's length when they pass you, right? Are you giving that full arm's length when you pass us on the right to get to the front of the line of traffic?

And if we all know that cars are faster than bikes, why are bikers trying to get ahead of all the cars to create yet another dozen dangerous passing scenarios?

This is my issue too. Here in Van there are lots of roads with many lights, and tons of bikers.
Sometimes when driving, you end up passing the same biker 3-4 times because every light he gets ahead of you, and then when traffic moves you get ahead of him, then repeat, repeat, repeat.

End result is you both move the same distance in the same amount of time because the lights keep you so slow anyway. It would make alot more sense, and be much safer to stay behind or ahead of each other until the road opens up.

Disclaimer: I like bikers and biking myself. Most are really good at driving in traffic here in Van. There's just a couple of things that don't make sense to me and don't seem safe.

[jammies]

The problem with bike-only roads and bike lanes is that Calgary really only has about half the year where your average biker is going to take his/her bike to work, plus the city is spread out so far that setting up a parallel traffic system for bikers would be enormously expensive to implement. How many cyclists do you actually see compared to cars - maybe 1:20, if that?

Personally I'd turn all the current pathways into bike-only thoroughfares between 6:30 - 8:30 AM every morning and 4:00 - 6:00 PM every night with 40 km/h speed limit. Put in a few bike lanes going along streets N/S from the river, and along 10 AVE S for E/W travel, and forbid them anywhere else in the central traffic area (you walk your bike the last couple blocks if you have to) and on any major roads. Being able to use the pathways at high speed will get the cyclists downtown faster, and keeping them off the major roads will keep the traffic moving better.

PS - I used to ride to work occasionally when I lived up at the end of Edmonton Trail, but I'd never ride on any streets during rush hour - seemed way too dangerous, and that was back when the roads weren't nearly as crowded.

[crazylegs]

My biggest beef is on Cyclists on major roads. If traffic is backed up behind you then it really isn't in your best interest to be on the road.

The complaint about pathways?? There is a speedlimit for a reason, on the road and on the pathways. I would love to be able to drive 100km/h the whole way to work but I can't because there is a speedlimit. Just because it will take you an extra 2 mins to slow down and pass a pedestrian doesn't mean you should avoid them.(sounds like a familiar argument eh ) That extra 2 mins will give you 2 mins more exersise, and if you're all about exercise this shouldn't be a problem. If you don't have access to a pathway, that is unfortunate but try and pick a road where you aren't putting yourself and others in danger. Also by putting yourself on a road slowing those that chose to drive down, might not really be helping decreasing the environmental impact.

Major roads= Anything with a trail in the name, you probably shouldn't be on.

BTW I am all for creating a safe way to transport cyclist, but part of that is already there but by chosing to not use the pathway system won't create an alternate form of transport. Politicians view that they already created one, if it needs to be expanded maybe that needs to be explored but they aren't to change something that is already there.

[FurnaceFace]

I'm a biker and freely admit I don't follow every rule - although I don't think all drivers follow every rule either. It goes both ways.

My biggest pet peeve with drivers are some of them treat me like a pedestrian. My route takes me through the beltline and I have a number of stop signs to navigate. It is common - at least one a week - where I'm waiting at a stop sign and someone with the right of way stops in their lane and waves me through. It's a really awkward position to be in because I either have to go through a mime routine informing them I have to stop or I have to make sure the cars coming the other way stop too. I can wait the couple of seconds for the road to clear or I can hop off my bike and hit the crosswalk.

I've also had drivers turn in front of me or open their doors as I'm riding up like all bikers have. True bike lanes where ONLY bikes are allowed would be wonderful. Not the pathway system we have now where you have to work your way past walkers, runners, bladers, etc. The yearly bike survey the city puts out I always ask for pathway widening and dedicated bike lanes. I think that would help keep us out of drivers hair.

Major roads= Anything with a trail in the name, you probably shouldn't be on.

I believe it's illegal (not to mention scary as hell) to ride your bike on the trails.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Finally got through this thread; and it leaves me with two related questions for the cyclists:

You say you want motorists to give you a full arm's length when they pass you, right? Are you giving that full arm's length when you pass us on the right to get to the front of the line of traffic?

And if we all know that cars are faster than bikes, why are bikers trying to get ahead of all the cars to create yet another dozen dangerous passing scenarios?

Car hits cyclist = cyclist severely hurt or dead
Cyclist hits car = scratch, a couple of cuts and bruised ego.

That is the difference in terms of passing. And to answer your last question it is to make up time in the difference in speeds between a car and a bike. It is faster to go to the front of traffic and I never thought it was a major issue or an issue related to my safety. Cars will pass cyclists that is an inevitability when riding a bike on the streets in Calgary.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I've also had drivers turn in front of me or open their doors as I'm riding up like all bikers have.

Wouldn't those situations be your fault though? and by fault i mean rules of the road fault even if you couldn't do anything to avoid the accident.

[Fuzzy McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by troutman

My pet peeve is when cyclists ride on busy streets at rush hour, when there is a dedicated bike path 50 m away.

Sometimes I think it's a deathwish or utter disregard for one's own safety to ride a bicycle on busy city streets. Years ago, there was this older guy who I would see ride his bike regularly up and down Centre Street North. I used to think that it was probably just a matter of time before something bad happened to him. Sadly, he met his end going through someone's windshield.

There's no bike path adjacent to Centre Street, but 2nd Street NW is a designated bike route.

[Rhettzky]

Wow, according to city by-laws you are not allowed to operate your slow moving vehicles during rush hour on certain streets. I had no idea...

Originally Posted by Bylaw Number 26M96

SLOW MOVING TRAFFIC

39. (1) In this Section "Slow Moving Vehicle" includes any vehicle or equipment, any animaldrawn vehicle or any other machinery designed for use at speeds less than 40 kilometres per hour and which normally travels or is used at speeds of less than 40 kilometres per hour.

(2) No person shall operate a slow moving vehicle on a street or portion thereof set out in Schedule "M" to this Bylaw on any day between the hours of seven o'clock in the morning and eight thirty o'clock in the morning, or between the hours of four o'clock in the afternoon and six o'clock in the afternoon, except on a Saturday or a Holiday.

(3) No person shall operate a slow moving vehicle during night time on any street with a posted maximum speed limit of 70 kilometres per hour or more unless the slow moving vehicle is accompanied by a pilot vehicle following behind.

(4) The provisions of this Section shall not apply to any vehicle owned by or under contract to the City of Calgary or any vehicle used in conjunction with roadway maintenance while such vehicle is actually engaged in maintenance operations on any restricted roadway as described in Schedule "M".

(5)

No person shall operate a slow moving vehicle on the Deerfoot Trail between the north city limits and the Anderson Road/Bow Bottom Trail interchange at any time.

Here are the restricted routes...

SCHEDULE "M"

SLOW MOVING VEHICLE - RESTRICTED ROUTES

(Section 39 of the Calgary Traffic Bylaw)

Crowchild Trail from Glenmore Trail to Shaganappi Trail
Macleod Trail from Southland Drive to 17

th Avenue SE
1st Street SE from 17th Avenue SE to Macleod Trail
Centre Street from 4th Avenue South to 16th Avenue North
Memorial Drive from 10th Street West to Crowchild Trail
16th Avenue North (Trans Canada Highway) from Deerfoot Trail to Crowchild Trail

Now get off my roads hippies!

[enthused]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Just Calgarians hey?
Backwards compared to what? What you think? Maybe you are the one who is backwards?

All I meant was that, at least in my mind, it seems very backwards that people who choose to cycle are being called hippies, and that the city in general hasn't done more to promote cycling, and make it safer and more accessible to get around by bike. Many Canadian cities have a fair amount of bike lanes and more paths, and it seems as though Calgary is lagging behind in that respect.

Perhaps I should have said that Calgary is backwards, as opposed to Calgarians... but I still feel that the whole thought process behind promoting cycling here isn't very innovative.

But of course, what do I know, right? Like you say, I'm the one that's backwards.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It is faster to go to the front of traffic and I never thought it was a major issue or an issue related to my safety.

I think you forgot to mention that it is faster for you; at the expense of others. You save a few seconds at best, and cost a dozen cars; many with passengers each; more time than you save. So if you save 15 seconds and cost each driver 20 seconds, that's 360 man-seconds you cost with that stunt.

I guess my main point was that cyclists say they don't want cars to pass them so close, but they are the ones who may initiate the close passing. It doesn't matter that you decide to take the incresed risk at that moment. The point is cyclists need to decide which rules they want to follow. So in other words; what many of the motorists have said before hold true- don't expect us to give cyclists a great deal of respect when they don't want to follow a firm set of rules.

If you want us to pass safely, don't put yourself in a position that requires us to eventually pass you unsafely. Just the other day I was waiting for a train on Sheppard Road; a 2 lane road. There was a long line of cars, and a cyclist passed everybody on the right to get to the front of the line. He then got mad at people for passing him too close; including me. Hey- I had already passed him once safely on Ogden Rd where there is almost 2 lanes in each direction. It's not my fault that he decided to pass on the right and place himslef in a dangerous position.