The Pathetic State of Albertan Universities

[Canada 02]

semi-related - isnt there a campus going up in the East Village? I thought i read that new UofC campus would accomodate an additional 13000 students

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

The article states that more than 5000 students were turned away from Mt. Royal College. I agree having high benchmarks for certain programs is important, obviously some students aren't cut out to be in those programs...But were not talking about that. Nursing programs and 2 year diploma programs are not available to people that could achieve success.

Then those people turned away are trying to get into a specialized field of study like journalism or nursing that only accept a small number of applicants. If these people are being rejected from MRC entirely on their marks then I for one am glad. Admission to MRC is so low, only 60% HS marks required to guarantee admission to most programs. I know this is the case for both the Engineering and Computer Science areas.

We dont need to relax the standards to get in, they are already too low IMHO. If these 5000 people who couldn't get in cant maintain 60% in HS or with upgrading they are the people who should be learning a trade. University is not for everyone, we should not try to make it that way.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Swarly

Then those people turned away are trying to get into a specialized field of study like journalism or nursing that only accept a small number of applicants. If these people are being rejected from MRC entirely on their marks then I for one am glad. Admission to MRC is so low, only 60% HS marks required to guarantee admission to most programs. I know this is the case for both the Engineering and Computer Science areas.

We dont need to relax the standards to get in, they are already too low IMHO. If these 5000 people who couldn't get in cant maintain 60% in HS or with upgrading they are the people who should be learning a trade. University is not for everyone, we should not try to make it that way.

how do you graduate high school with 60%? I could do no homework and never study for test and still get 70%+ (not that I actually do this).

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Having spent the last 7ish years now at MRC and the UofC, if anything the admission requirements are too low right now, I know a few people at the UofC who will be graduating soon who have no business in the field they are in and will not be a strong asset to their employer. Part of it is that for the most part university courses are too easy.

The good students complain that they are hard but the reality is, yes it is hard for you to get your A instead of a B and if you give 100% effort you are going to be challenged. However, you can still float through the classes and get a C with relative ease, even in some of the harder courses and for the most part it doesn't matter if you graduate with a 2.1 or a 3.6.

Good employers recognize the need to look beyond the stamped certificate sitting in an applicants portfolio. Your degree should only get you in the door...From there you have to sell yourself.

I agree there's something to be said about academic success translating into valuable skills in the workplace.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Good employers recognize the need to look beyond the stamped certificate sitting in an applicants portfolio. Your degree should only get you in the door...From there you have to sell yourself.

I agree there's something to be said about academic success translating into valuable skills in the workplace.

That's 100% true. I met some british guys this year. One was an investment banker and the other was an HR guy for the company. The guy who did the hiring said he couldn't give a about the degree you had or where you went to school and that it's experience that counts. The investment banker was a highschool dropout that worked his way up.

Having said that an education is a good thing as it builds work ethic, expands your mind, etc but it's not the be all end all

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

how do you graduate high school with 60%? I could do no homework and never study for test and still get 70%+ (not that I actually do this).

hehe didn't, but we know people who did. It's hard for most reasonably intelligent people to understand, but some people are just dumb and will be in tough no matter how easy it seems to the rest of the people. You can tell them things time and time again but they just can't learn for whatever reason.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Dan02

hehe didn't, but we know people who did. It's hard for most reasonably intelligent people to understand, but some people are just dumb and will be in tough no matter how easy it seems to the rest of the people.

haha i know i wasn't taking a shot at you but just people who do in general

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

how do you graduate high school with 60%? I could do no homework and never study for test and still get 70%+ (not that I actually do this).

Exactly my point, you'd have to be some kind of moron to not get 60 in HS and yet people manage to do it. Do we really want those people in university, becoming engineers to build our bridges?

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Swarly

Exactly my point, you'd have to be some kind of moron to not get 60 in HS and yet people manage to do it. Do we really want those people in university, becoming engineers to build our bridges?

apparently minnesota tried it out and it didn't work out too well

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by Swarly

Exactly my point, you'd have to be some kind of moron to not get 60 in HS and yet people manage to do it. Do we really want those people in university, becoming engineers to build our bridges?

yes, because that is what this issue is about, letting people who can barely pass high school become bridge builders.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

yes, because that is what this issue is about, letting people who can barely pass high school become bridge builders.

I'm consufsed, aren't most of the people turned away by these institutions the ones who graduated at the bottom of their class? Yes in the small specialties, journalism and nursing for example. People get turned away on a numbers basis who generally would be acceptable applicants. But in the larger fields, sciences, engineering etc. The people who are getting turned away probably shouldn't be enrolled in university.

I think Swarlys point is valid, increasing the size of universitys will not increase the quality of the applicants.

I'd also like to see the number of university spaces per population rather then the number of universitys per population.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

I don't know a single person who wanted to go to university but didn't.

And those who couldn't get in went to Mount Royal to upgrade first, or went out of province, etc. Having lots of demand and low supply forces people to make other decisions, and it's not the worst thing in the world to have to move for a university degree.

Same here.

Lots of people in Alberta aren't going to University because they can make good money doing a trade right now I find.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Swarly

Exactly my point, you'd have to be some kind of moron to not get 60 in HS and yet people manage to do it. Do we really want those people in university, becoming engineers to build our bridges?

Wrong. A lot of teenagers don't (in my case didn't) give a crap and get poor grades because of it.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by habernac

Wrong. A lot of teenagers don't (in my case didn't) give a crap and get poor grades because of it.

not giving a crap doesn't necessairily mean poor grades. I think everyone who knows me would definately put me in the don't give a crap group, yet grades have never been a issue.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by habernac

Wrong. A lot of teenagers don't (in my case didn't) give a crap and get poor grades because of it.

But then its quite easy for those who now do give a crap to upgrade and get in. I'm not saying if you failed HS you should be condemmed for life. Just not allowed into university until such time as you've proven a change like thru upgrading.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Swarly

But then its quite easy for those who now do give a crap to upgrade and get in. I'm not saying if you failed HS you should be condemmed for life. Just not allowed into university until such time as you've proven a change like thru upgrading.

I'm pretty sure nobody has suggested that we allow failed high school students into university. Failed high school students aren't the ones being turned away.

We should have more post-secondary spots available for qualified students. Period. Education should be accessible to more people, not less.

Alberta should have the best education system in Canada by a country mile and we don't have it. I doubt we are even close and we don't appear too interested in getting there.

[MarchHare]

Alberta should have the best education system in Canada by a country mile and we don't have it. I doubt we are even close and we don't appear too interested in getting there.

I'm pretty sure Albertan students consistently rank highest in the country on national standardized tests. I also remember reading that per capita Alberta also has the greatest number of university graduates.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm pretty sure Albertan students consistently rank highest in the country on national standardized tests. I also remember reading that per capita Alberta also has the greatest number of university graduates.

Yeah, I recall reading that somewhere too.

I think that in the last 3-4 years, more Alberta students have placed in the top 1% throughout the country on Diploma exams than any other province.

But we still need more schools.

[Kipper is King]

Education unfortunatly gets the shaft in Alberta. Classrooms are packed, and tuition is high. Government should definitly devote more funding to education.

And then there's healthcare, too. Anyone who's set foot in a hospital can attest that that situtaion is not optimal, either.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, I recall reading that somewhere too.

I think that in the last 3-4 years, more Alberta students have placed in the top 1% throughout the country on Diploma exams than any other province.

But we still need more schools.

Diploma exams are not standardized across the country. We don't write them here in Manitoba and many private school have their own exams. Also with the economy the way it is the mindsets in the different provinces are completly different. In my case i'm at a private school in Manitoba. You would be considered a screw up if you don't go to university. When I was at a public school in Alberta the attituted wasn't the same and for good reason as people in the trades make damn good money. With the economy the way it is education isn't a priority for many people.