Alright, this is a little too much from me... (Smoking ban with kids in car)

[Boblobla]

Okotoks ponders no smoking in car with kids

From CTV.ca

Okotoks could be the first Alberta community to ban smoking in vehicles carrying children. If a proposed bylaw passes it would mean drivers who smoke with anyone under sixteen in the vehicle could be fined.

Town councillor Stephen Clark is making the motion and he says it’s a serious health hazard for children, especially infants. Clark says "they are developing, they breath at a faster rate than adults, as I say the smoke concentration in vehicles are quite high, so it's a legitimate concern, you also say common sense, well its not that common, statistics show that one in five smokers smoke in a vehicle when their children are present".

Not all members of the town council think Okotoks is the place to start with such a smoking ban. The Mayor of Okotoks Bill McAlpine says Clark's motion may become law however enforcing it could prove difficult.

The Okotoks initiative is not the first of its kind. Nova Scotia passed similar legislation in December and Ontario has also is also considering such a ban.

So far the Alberta government has rejected the idea. Clark says it's not unusual for communities to get the ball rolling.

For the record, I am an ex-smoker and I love the no smoking in pub and restaurants. I still enjoy the occasional cigar and sometimes I have one with my g/f's little brother in the car. Only in nice weather, and only with the window wide open with the cigar and my breath going outside.

I think this is too far. So you would get pulled over and they would ID your passenger?? What is next? Not allowing people to smoke in their own house? Why not take more steps to stop the 12-16 years olds that are smoking? I just find this quite ######ed. I know there will be the 'Won't someone PLEASE think of the children' argument but how much do we have to infringe on peoples rights in their own space??

[Gozer]

The "we know what's good for you better than you" sentiment in politics is always scary to me.


Doesn't matter if they're right.

[Stormchaser]

I'm for it

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The "we know what's good for you better than you" sentiment in politics is always scary to me.

Doesn't matter if they're right.

Agreed, there has to be a way to make common sense more common that forcing it on people...

That just leads to bitter resentment.

[Locke]

In the interest of crucifying smokers for the despicable and rotting hulks of souless vermin that they are, I think all of their rights should be withdrawn.

Lets fix the root of this problem, dont even let smokers drive. Clearly, by deciding to smoke they have demonstrated that their judgement is sub-par and self-destructive and generally impaired beyond reason to begin with.

After we're done taking away their right to drive, we should rescind their right to shoes, so every step they take in public is penance.

At which point we should pass a law that says that anyone who sees a smoker in public has the right to poke them with a sharp stick. In the eye.

Why stop there? We should make them do humiliating and backbreaking menial labour for the public good while we're at it.

We could bring back slavery, except instead of having it being racially motivated we could subdivide the social classes by behavioral issues.

Either that or just fine them for every breath they take so they appreciate it more.

[LChoy]

I'm for it in terms for health reasons. However, on a legal perspective, it sets a dangerous precedent. I much rather have a public ad campaign to educate rather than legislate

[troutman]

If people won't protect their children from second-hand smoke, then society must protect the children. The rights of the child supercedes all.

[worth]

absolutely ridiculous. i'm not a smoker, and I never have been. I was against banning smoking in bars and pubs and such even though I don't like smoke! It should be up to the owner of the establishment whether or not they allow smoking, not the government. I should have to deal with it.

The invasion of this policy into the car is completely uncalled for.

Soon enough there will be a law that you cannot smoke inside your home on your own property.

[J pold]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The "we know what's good for you better than you" sentiment in politics is always scary to me.


Doesn't matter if they're right.

What about when doctors say it? Do they know what’s better for you than you?

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/303881

Ontario's doctors are stepping up efforts to force a provincial ban on smoking in cars with children on board.

Citing a California study that showed second-hand smoke in cars could reach levels more than twice those previously suspected, the Ontario Medical Association says subjecting kids to such toxic fumes is no longer acceptable.

[Claeren]

I read somewhere not long ago that a child in a car with a smoking adult with the windows closed damages their lungs as badly from one cigarette as an adult does from an entire pack of cigarettes in the open air.

That is child endangerment no?

How badly would you have to be poisoning(by any means including smoking) a child before you would want the government to have a law against it?

What about when your children get a ride from their friends parents, and those parents are smoking around YOUR kids? Where you no longer have a choice?

As someone who grew up with a chain smoking father (who quit after he almost died a few years ago) I fully support any laws against it. ADDICTION, which is what smoking is, is no excuse for any behavior - not least of which is poisoning innocent children.

I just wish they banned smoking altogether (although understand it would just spawn a major blackmarket for all the addicts...).


Claeren.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by worth

Soon enough there will be a law that you cannot smoke inside your home on your own property.

There is evidence linking Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, with smoking in the home.

http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/gen...leep/sids.html

[The Ditch]

eh, nanny state mentality. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on this but I remember a few times as a kid where I was in cars where the smoke bothered me to the point where I felt sick. Children don't have the choice to get out of the car or ask them to put out the smoke.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Claeren

I read somewhere not long ago that a child in a car with a smoking adult with the windows closed damages their lungs as badly from one cigarette as an adult does from an entire pack of cigarettes in the open air.

Even when I was a smoker I could not smoke with the windows closed, rain or snow. I don't really know why this is relevant but I just don't understand how people can smoke with the windows closed...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

eh, nanny state mentality. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on this but I remember a few times as a kid where I was in cars where the smoke bothered me to the point where I felt sick. Children don't have the choice to get out of the car or ask them to put out the smoke.

Sure they do. But they risk being backhanded across the face for their insolence.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by troutman

There is evidence linking Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, with smoking in the home.

Linky Linky please if you can. This statement is interesting to me.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The "we know what's good for you better than you" sentiment in politics is always scary to me.


Doesn't matter if they're right.

I think this comes from the "We can legislate our way to Utopia crowd." Of course one's idea of Utopia is another person's idea of hell which is why using the legal system to enforce human behavior is far from equitable and just. I think the percieved benefit of this law doesn't justify yet another intrusion on personal liberties.

[fredr123]

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by Locke

In the interest of crucifying smokers for the despicable and rotting hulks of souless vermin that they are, I think all of their rights should be withdrawn.

Lets fix the root of this problem, dont even let smokers drive. Clearly, by deciding to smoke they have demonstrated that their judgement is sub-par and self-destructive and generally impaired beyond reason to begin with.

After we're done taking away their right to drive, we should rescind their right to shoes, so every step they take in public is penance.

At which point we should pass a law that says that anyone who sees a smoker in public has the right to poke them with a sharp stick. In the eye.

Why stop there? We should make them do humiliating and backbreaking menial labour for the public good while we're at it.

We could bring back slavery, except instead of having it being racially motivated we could subdivide the social classes by behavioral issues.

Either that or just fine them for every breath they take so they appreciate it more.

So if i locked a child in a enclosed space with poisonous air equal to that of cigarette smoke am I a good person too?

Why is it that cigarette smoke gets a pass just because ADDICTS produce it?

I am not sure there is a SINGLE other exception where i can poison a child knowingly and on purpose and not go to jail?


Oh, but those pooooor smokers! Those poooor victims!

"Smokers: Hundreds of years of poisoning their own children, making up excuses for their addiction, and still going strong!"



Claeren.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Linky Linky please if you can. This statement is interesting to me.

http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/gen...leep/sids.html

Do not smoke, drink, or use drugs while pregnant and do not expose your baby to secondhand smoke. Infants of mothers who smoked during pregnancy are three times more likely to die of SIDS than those whose mothers were smoke-free; exposure to secondhand smoke doubles a baby's risk of SIDS. Researchers speculate that smoking might affect the central nervous system, starting prenatally and continuing after birth, which could place the baby at increased risk.

[Locke]

Whatever, this type of crap will just fall by the side of the road because the idiots who propose this sort of nonsense arent the ones on the streets writing tickets.

Remember when Calgary legislated that it was illegal to smoke in public if under the age of 18, and if you were caught you would be fined? Right. And how many tickets did the cops write for that law?

Putting something like this into practice would be hugely impractical, regardless of your views on the logic or ethics.