34 Stingrays Dead at Calgary Zoo

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Dan02

lol, where did pet overpopulation come from?

You brought up euthanizing animals which actually is less painful than declawing a cat. The main reason animals are euthanized is due to overpopulation. Didn't really think i had to spell that out.

[jolinar of malkshor]

I am an animal lover. I don't see a big deal with getting a cat de-clawed IF it is only going to be an indoor cat. I would never de-claw my cat but it really isn't that big of deal. Yes it may be pain full for a few days. So is fixing the cats, tatooing them, and any other medical proceedure. It is not a constant pain for the rest fo their lives.

On a side note, my dog brought home a duck the other day. It had a broken wing and that is probably why my dog was able to catch it. My dog did not injure it in any way (it is a golden retriever) and it comes natural for them. We put it in a dog crate, gave it food and water (named it Leroy) and I called the wildlife sanctuary people. They told me to bring it down. So I did. They tell me that they will see what they can do but if they can't fix the wing they are going to put it down. I tell them if that is the case give me a call and I will pick it up and bring it back to the farm and make a home for it. They tell me that would be against the law for them to release it if it is injured and they have to put it down.

WHAT? I can give it a good home and they would reather kill it? So much for doing the best for the animal.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Sowa

You brought up euthanizing animals which actually is less painful than declawing a cat. The main reason animals are euthanized is due to overpopulation. Didn't really think i had to spell that out.

more painful quite possibly, but would you rather be dead or have your finger nails taken off? wonder if they asked any of the cats.

I just think it's hypocritical to object to declawing cats while at the same time spaying/neutering and euthanizing them is an accepted practice. and no that doesn't mean that i don't think we should be spaying or neutering our pets. Mine are.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Dan02

more painful quite possibly, but would you rather be dead or have your finger nails taken off? wonder if they asked any of the cats.

I just think it's hypocritical to object to declawing cats while at the same time spaying/neutering and euthanizing them is an accepted practice. and no that doesn't mean that i don't think we should be spaying or neutering our pets. Mine are.

The two aren't comparable. They are seperate issues. Euthanization of unadoptable animals reduces suffering or would you rather them have long drawn out deaths caused by starvation and disease?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Sowa

The two aren't comparable. They are seperate issues. Euthanization of unadoptable animals reduces suffering or would you rather them have long drawn out deaths caused by starvation and disease?

Just send them over to Dan, he will look after them as long as they are de-clawed.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Sowa

The two aren't comparable. They are seperate issues. Euthanization of unadoptable animals reduces suffering or would you rather them have long drawn out deaths caused by starvation and disease?

They are comparable. Some people would not adopt a cat if it couldn't be de-clawed. Therefore it would be put down. So what would you rather have? An animal de-clawed or put down?

[killer_carlson]

any word on the stingrays?

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

They are comparable. Some people would not adopt a cat if it couldn't be de-clawed. Therefore it would be put down. So what would you rather have? An animal de-clawed or put down?

It's more of a case by case thing, because with declawing there's still no guarantees that the cat won't be returned to the pound. Declawed cats make up the vast majority of cats returned to pounds for behavioral problems and guess what its harder to adopt out declawed cats with behavioral problems. There's some who argue that cats that are declawed have a greater tendency to bite and not use their litter box. I think it's pretty telling that the US and Canada are the only western countries that don't have a law banning declawing. In a city like Austin, where we are a no kill zone I'd rather the city wait and find a suitable owner than one who is going to mutilate their cat.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

any word on the stingrays?

I haven't seen any updates on it since the 13th... The only recent article is talking about how Toronto is changing their exhibit thats opening soon to be with no human interaction.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Sowa

It's more of a case by case thing, because with declawing there's still no guarantees that the cat won't be returned to the pound. Declawed cats make up the vast majority of cats returned to pounds for behavioral problems and guess what its harder to adopt out declawed cats with behavioral problems. There's some who argue that cats that are declawed have a greater tendency to bite and not use their litter box. I think it's pretty telling that the US and Canada are the only western countries that don't have a law banning declawing. In a city like Austin, where we are a no kill zone I'd rather the city wait and find a suitable owner than one who is going to mutilate their cat.

More then half of your post is pure speculation. Back up some of those statements with facts, it's just kind of hard to apply them to anything without the stats to back it up. Sure a "vast majority" of cats are allegedly being returned for behavioral problems but... is this fact? who did the study? how many cats in general are declawed? what percentage of declawed cats are returned versus clawed cats? It's easy to twist facts to prove any "point" but until their is a study by an unbiased party listed here then it's all speculation.

Secondly, beyond the US and Canada who are the other Western countries you are refering to? Mexico? They probably don't have cat declawing laws because they are still eating cats. Out of all the countries in the world how many do you think outlaw cat declawing? How many don't have laws about domestic animals period? How many do you think are too busy fighting civil wars and dealing with attrocities on actual humans to give a flying crap about cats and wether or not they should be declawed.

Are you against circumcision too? Because that is a modification made to a human against their free will. The only difference is it's done to keep someone's wang clean, not to keep them from clawing furniture with it.

[Dan02]

1. Scientific data does indicate that cats that have destructive clawing behavior are more likely to be euthanized, or more readily relinquished, released, or abandoned, thereby contributing to the homeless cat population. When scratching behavior is an issue as to whether or not a particular cat can remain as an acceptable household pet in a particular home, surgical onychectomy may be considered.
2. There is no scientific evidence that declawing leads to behavioral abnormalities when the behavior of declawed cats is compared with that of cats in control groups.

Well Sowa heres some points taken from the Canadian Veterinary Medical Associations position on declawing. Interesting how they directly contradict quite a few of your previous posts.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

More then half of your post is pure speculation. Back up some of those statements with facts, it's just kind of hard to apply them to anything without the stats to back it up. Sure a "vast majority" of cats are allegedly being returned for behavioral problems but... is this fact? who did the study? how many cats in general are declawed? what percentage of declawed cats are returned versus clawed cats? It's easy to twist facts to prove any "point" but until their is a study by an unbiased party listed here then it's all speculation.

There's a study by Forgotten Felines and Friends that says 70% returned are declawed that was a national survey of pounds and shelters. As far as the credibility of that organization I don't know, but it is the only study of its kind out there.

Secondly, beyond the US and Canada who are the other Western countries you are refering to? Mexico? They probably don't have cat declawing laws because they are still eating cats. Out of all the countries in the world how many do you think outlaw cat declawing? How many don't have laws about domestic animals period? How many do you think are too busy fighting civil wars and dealing with attrocities on actual humans to give a flying crap about cats and wether or not they should be declawed.

Are you against circumcision too? Because that is a modification made to a human against their free will. The only difference is it's done to keep someone's wang clean, not to keep them from clawing furniture with it.

http://www.declawing.com/list.html is a list of countries

And I thought it would be known that when I say Western countries that would imply Europe, North America, and Australia.

Circumcision, not really sure how that applies, circumcision some say enhances your life unlike declawing which is crippling to the cat.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Well Sowa heres some points taken from the Canadian Veterinary Medical Associations position on declawing. Interesting how they directly contradict quite a few of your previous posts.

I never stated the above post as fact. I said "There's some who believe". You can find Vets and Veterinary Associations that say both.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I never stated the above post as fact. I said "There's some who believe". You can find Vets and Veterinary Associations that say both.

Yes but this is our national association as far as I can tell. Not some random throw together of vets.

Originally Posted by Sowa

Declawed cats make up the vast majority of cats returned to pounds for behavioral problems and guess what its harder to adopt out declawed cats with behavioral problems.

If that wasn't intended to be a fact, you sure made it sound like it and yet according to the CVMA, it is completely false.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Yes but this is our national association as far as I can tell. Not some random throw together of vets.

They have their own motives as well as any other organization.

If that wasn't intended to be a fact, you sure made it sound like it and yet according to the CVMA, it is completely false.

That was intended as fact but the rest wasn't. And according to the CVMA it is not completely false, they just say there are no scientific studies to prove it. And their first point about cats more likely to be returned if they are destructive. I don't need scientific data to tell me that.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Sowa

That was intended as fact but the rest wasn't. And according to the CVMA it is not completely false, they just say there are no scientific studies to prove it. And their first point about cats more likely to be returned if they are destructive. I don't need scientific data to tell me that.

You're right i worded it wrong. It wasn't completely false it was completely without merit.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Dan02

You're right i worded it wrong. It wasn't completely false it was completely without merit.

But do you know why it has no substantial scientific backing? It's because they're have been only 6 studies on the subject ever. Most do show an increase in behavioral problems when they are declawed, however the studies either had to small of a sample size or used flawed methodology so they can't be used as evidence.

[JiriHrdina]

The Zoo is going through just a horrible stretch - and elephant attacked a trainer today.

[Rhettzky]

I didn't hear about that, how bad was it?

[calf]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

I didn't hear about that, how bad was it?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...t-trainer.html

A veteran trainer at the Calgary Zoo was taken to hospital Sunday after he was knocked over by a female elephant, leaving him with deep facial cuts.
The 48-year-old keeper was working in an enclosure at about 1:30 p.m., with visitors watching from the other side of a fence, when Swarna, an Asian elephant, pushed him from behind into a wall, zoo representatives said.
The keeper, whose name hasn't been released, protected himself by crouching in a corner until help arrived, Calgary paramedics said.
"It wasn't part of any sort of type of demonstration or interactive display. It was really just him sort of cleaning and he had his back turned, … and that is when he was bumped," zoo spokesman Graham Newton said Sunday.
Calgary's Emergency Medical Services said the keeper suffered cuts to his nose and eyes, various scrapes and minor chest injuries.
Swarna was in the enclosure with her sister, Maharani, and her nine-month-old calf, Malti, at the time, but zoo officials said they don't know whether Swarna became agitated or whether the bump was an accident.
"It's not the kind of thing that happens every day, but it's certainly not unheard of. In this particular case, this is a keeper with a lot of experience. He's been with us for many, many years," Newton said. "I would suspect it's not the first time that he was bumped or jostled."