Ben Stein "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"

[myst]

Wow
I used to think Stein was a very smart individual but this movie proved me wrong.

The answer to 'how life began in the first place' has been answered by the evolutionary theory very nicely.

"In 1953, Stanley Miller and Harold Urey demonstrated that many simple biomolecules could be formed spontaneously from inorganic precursor compounds under laboratory conditions designed to mimic those found on Earth before the evolution of life. Of particular interest was the substantial yield of amino acids obtained, since amino acids are the building blocks for proteins.
In 1957, Sidney Fox demonstrated that dry mixtures of amino acids could be encouraged to polymerize upon exposure to moderate heat. When the resulting polypeptides, or proteinoids, were dissolved in hot water and the solution allowed to cool, they formed small spherical shells about 2 μm in diameter—microspheres. Under appropriate conditions, microspheres will bud new spheres at their surfaces."

In fact, a simple wikipedia search shows many very good theories of how life began in the first place 'without an intelligent designer'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

As a medical student, this movie really bothers me because it is a giant step backward in the uncovering and understanding of truth.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by myst

...As a medical student, this movie really bothers me because it is a giant step backward in the uncovering and understanding of truth.

I'm curious. In my reading and in my own interactions with dozens upon dozens of anti-evolutionists, I have found that, of the scientifically disposed, a large number are medical practitioners, or work closely to the medical field. I have been told that the reason for this is that evolutionary theory does not receive much if any treatment in medical school. Is this true?

[myst]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I'm curious. In my reading and in my own interactions with dozens upon dozens of anti-evolutionists, I have found that, of the scientifically disposed, a large number are medical practitioners, or work closely to the medical field. I have been told that the reason for this is that evolutionary theory does not receive much if any treatment in medical school. Is this true?

Thats not true really. In medical school you learn how truly imperfect the human body is. You can see clearly how every aspect that makes us human came from random genetic mutation.

Here is an example.
The very basics of genetics is that cellular DNA is transcribed to mRNA which is then transcribed to protein. The human gene coding for the protein 'dystrophin', a crucial component of muscles which is not really that complex, is 2.2 MILLION base pairs in length. It takes 116 hours just to transcribe the mRNA. 99.4% of the gene is not even transcribed (introns). This is a bizzare bizarre gene, like many of the other thousands along with it.

If you just looked at our DNA, the evidence is so crystal clear of how we came about. Only 1.5% of our genome actually codes for anything. 98.5% is 'junk' DNA that comprises of just repeat sequences or old viral DNA that got inserted in our genome long long ago, etc. Heck, even learning basic embryology shows you the bizarre nature by which we develop (no wonder there are so many diseases/malfunctions/malformations!). We start of these structures that would normally develop into gills (but those structures are suppressed), we have the potential for a tail (that is suppressed again in humans), etc etc etc. When you look at how we come about, you cant help but think that whoever designed us isnt very intelligent - or that we are just products of millions and millions of years of random mutation and selection of useful traits.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by myst

...If you just looked at our DNA, the evidence is so crystal clear of how we came about. Only 1.5% of our genome actually codes for anything. 98.5% is 'junk' DNA that comprises of just repeat sequences or old viral DNA that got inserted in our genome long long ago, etc. Heck, even learning basic embryology shows you the bizarre nature by which we develop (no wonder there are so many diseases/malfunctions/malformations!). We start of these structures that would normally develop into gills (but those structures are suppressed), we have the potential for a tail (that is suppressed again in humans), etc etc etc. When you look at how we come about, you cant help but think that whoever designed us isnt very intelligent - or that we are just products of millions and millions of years of random mutation and selection of useful traits.

Wow. That is astonishing. It is unbelievably sad, though, because this would mean that all those acquaintances I have made are completely and intentionally ignoring the evidence. how can someone remain incredulous in the face of so much proof?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Wow. That is astonishing. It is unbelievably sad, though, because this would mean that all those acquaintances I have made are completely and intentionally ignoring the evidence. how can someone remain incredulous in the face of so much proof?

Peer pressure?

[myst]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Wow. That is astonishing. It is unbelievably sad, though, because this would mean that all those acquaintances I have made are completely and intentionally ignoring the evidence. how can someone remain incredulous in the face of so much proof?

how old are they?
the human genome was sequenced only 10 years ago

[Displaced Flames fan]

The term 'intelligent design' is the worst possible thing that could've crept into the arsenals of those who believe in God (or something else). Nothing in this thread eliminates the possibility of there being something we don't understand 'behind the scenes' for lack of a better term. There is plenty in this thread to support evolution and obviously evolution is real. That pretty much blows the notion of a designer (at least an intelligent one! ) out of the water.

The problem with this entire debate for the overwhelming majority of deists is that they either can't see past their literal translation of the bible or they (like abortion activists on BOTH sides of that sad debate) refuse to let themselves see the other side of the equation.

I believe that it is possible that there is more to why we are here...or how we came to be. Humans have a problem understanding infinite timelines. As a human, that flaw allows me to be open to the possibility that there could be something we don't understand at play in addition to all that we've come to understand. I guess a lot of atheists don't allow themselves to admit that possibility either.

[photon]

I agree, I find it unfortunate that atheism/deism and evolution/creationism are often used synonymously... The two aren't necessarily related (though they are a very contentious point).

Finding Darwin's God by Ken Miller is a great book about evolution from a religious person's point of view.

I don't know if it's fair to say a lot of atheists don't allow themselves to admit the possibility though, most would say anything at all is possible, but until evidence comes to light then there's no reason to put time into the consideration.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by myst

Wow
I used to think Stein was a very smart individual but this movie proved me wrong.

What 12_34 seemed to insinuate to me was that Stein and maybe the originators of ID don't really believe in it but use it as a prop for organized religion to maintain political power.
As a believer in an energy outside of our normal realm of senses, I was interested in ID when I first heard of it but I couldn't finish reading the first page of their theory without gagging. What surprises me is that Stein can keep a straight face while promoting this crap.

I haven't looked at them yet but I ordered a couple of free DVDs from BIOINTERACTIVE.ORG on evolution which someone gave the link to here, my thanks.

[Thor]

The Evolution DVD's are awesome, at least as entertaining as a lecture can be

They address the ID debate in one of those DVDs as well, and they do it well.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Thor

The Evolution DVD's are awesome, at least as entertaining as a lecture can be

They address the ID debate in one of those DVDs as well, and they do it well.

I'd like to get my hands on some (did you say...FREE?!?!?!). Can you tell me what the exact titles are, so I can order them?

[photon]

http://www.hhmi.org/catalog/main?key...=searchResults

They have a few other free ones as well, I got them pretty quick too.

[Thor]

BTW CBC's 'The Hour' has Ben Stein on tonight, I hope that host has at least been forewarned to ask Mr Stein some tough questions.

Probably be all fluff though

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Thor

BTW CBC's 'The Hour' has Ben Stein on tonight, I hope that host has at least been forewarned to ask Mr Stein some tough questions.

Probably be all fluff though

I'll be interested to check this out...George S seems usually to get pretty friendly with the guests, so I'm guessing the questions will be reasonably soft, although I'm also assuming he's a little more left leaning and will come in skeptical of the subject matter. I am curious how this interview will play out

[Thor]

Anyone see the Hour?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thor

Anyone see the Hour?

The hockey game was on while the show ran on CBCNewsworld so maybe not.

It will be running at 11 mst on the regular network.

[RougeUnderoos]

George let him off pretty easy. The "Expelled" discussion only lasted 4 or 5 minutes and then they talked about all the other things he's done. If he loves his dog half as much as he loved Nixon then there is no doubt he owns a very fat and content dog, and the dog might be named Elvis. Or Priscilla, if it's a girl dog.

Regarding the movie, he was motivated to do it by "Darwinists not being able to answer questions" and "free speech".

When they talked about the film the Nazis and Hitler were mentioned numerous times.

He went off on something about how Darwin believed that the superior humans from Northern Europe would eventually have to deal with (kill, as I took it) the inferior races from Asia and Africa. He said something like "all educated people at the time were racists".

I don't know if this is true or not and George wasn't interested in challenging him on the point.

He did try to come across as neutral on the whole thing too though. He said that if there was clear and irrefutable proof that Darwin was right he wouldn't lose any sleep.

Mr. Stein is just interested in the truth, whatever it may be. Bla. And then bla bla.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I don't know if this is true or not and George wasn't interested in challenging him on the point.

I'm pretty comfortable saying it's utter nonsense. That isn't to say there haven't been educated people who misused Darwin's theories, or even other writings by other people for racist ends--of course there have. But it seems like Stein's tactic is to paint with a very broad brush, and to construct some weird straw man about Darwin and racism, which of course has nothing to do with whether or not evolution is a good theory.

[Burninator]

More trouble for Expelled.

A New York Judge ruled to continue an injunction against Premise Media, which effectively prevents Premise, the producers of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, from further distribution.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Judge_continues_injunction_against_'Expelled'_film

[troutman]

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17.html#part1

In this week’s eSkeptic, we present the first two of four articles debunking claims made in Ben Stein’s new documentary film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. The first article is by Michael Shermer, Director of the Skeptics Society and author of The Mind of the Market. The second article is by Ed Brayton.