New Patriots spy allegations: Pats employee filmed Rams before Superbowl XXXVI.

[burn_baby_burn]

NFL Commissioner Roger Goddell is proposing plans to make cheating penalties easier to impose.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3280996

With confidence in NFL rules oversight at low ebb, commissioner Roger Goddell is proposing enacting easier-to-impose cheating penalties as a deterrent for future SpyGate scandals, The Washington Post reported Thursday.
In an article on its Web site, the newspaper cited a memo sent to the league's competition committee Thursday and said the proposals included a change in rules that would allow league officials to make unannounced inspections of locker rooms, press boxes and in-game communications equipment.
The measure was among a series of stricter rules changes Goodell wants to enact before next season "to preserve the integrity of the game" and "maintain public confidence" in the sport, according to the memo.

The commissioner also endorsed a proposal to permit one defensive player per team to be connected to a coach on the sideline during games via a wireless device, and called upon the committee to conduct "a thorough review" of all competitive rules and practices.

[burn_baby_burn]

Looks like the league and Walsh are getting close to an agreement. Wonder if he will add anything substantial or if it will be more of the same old thing?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3285441

The former New England Patriots video assistant who has told ESPN.com he has potentially damaging information about the team's taping practices is close to an agreement with the National Football League to tell his story.
What, if any, evidence Matt Walsh can provide could be critical in determining the direction of the lingering Spygate saga. Walsh, 31 and now an assistant golf pro on Maui, expressed a willingness to speak to NFL officials about insights into the Pats' taping procedures, although his attorney has tried to keep that from happening until the league agrees to provide Walsh with full indemnification against possible lawsuits

.

[burn_baby_burn]

The former St. Louis Rams player has decided to drop his law suit against the New England Patriots.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3286852

NEW ORLEANS -- Lawyers for a former St. Louis Rams player and three fans plan to withdraw a lawsuit that accuses the New England Patriots of cheating in the 2002 Super Bowl.
In court papers filed Monday, the plaintiffs' attorneys say they sued last month in an attempt to secure sworn testimony from former Patriots employee Matt Walsh, who allegedly taped a walkthrough practice by the Rams before New England's Super Bowl win.
But the lawyers for former Rams player Willie Gary call it an "exercise in futility" because they suspect Walsh would exercise his constitutional right against self-incrimination if he is ordered to submit to a deposition.
On Monday, they asked a federal judge in New Orleans to dismiss the case. The case was filed in New Orleans because the Louisiana Superdome hosted the 2002 Super Bowl, which the Patriots won 20-17.

[burn_baby_burn]

Matt Walsh to finally meet with Goddell.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3363455

[burn_baby_burn]

Tommorrow is D day in the whole Spygate Scandel.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...sal&id=3391620

As far as we know, Walsh is the first person currently with no ties to the Patriots organization with direct knowledge of Belichick's videotaping shenanigans who will be answering the commissioner's questions, and Walsh can provide some much-needed context, background and intent.


Intent is critical. Why? Well, when Belichick was first punished by Goodell in September 2007 for illegally taping the defensive signals of the New York Jets at the Meadowlands, the Patriots' head coach said he had no idea he was doing anything illicit.

So, Goodell should pursue a very simple line of questioning to test Belichick's original contention that he was ignorant of the league rules: When Walsh was taping the opponents' sidelines, how much was he told to conceal his activities? What measures were taken to conceal his taping? How concerned were his superiors that what Walsh was doing would be uncovered by a member of the opposing team? Was Walsh worried about getting caught? Why?


What kind of instruction did Walsh get in how to tape the opposition's sideline? Who gave Walsh those instructions? Whom did he report to?


What happened to the tapes? Where did they go? Who analyzed the tapes of the defensive signals? Were there written reports based on the tapes? Who wrote those reports? And, more important, who saw the reports or was told what was in them? Did Tom Brady? Or Charlie Weis, when he was offensive coordinator during the Patriots' run of Super Bowl titles?


What was Walsh told about why this widespread practice of taping the opponents' defensive signals was vital to how the Patriots prepared for an opponent?

These will be difficult questions for Goodell to ask. Why? Because the commissioner has already said publicly many times, dating to September, that he believed the Patriots derived "minimal" benefit from their secret, illegal taping system. Questioning Walsh along those lines may reveal information that contradicts Goodell's earlier conclusions. Nevertheless, Goodell should have the courage to ask them.

Walsh's videotapes did not include the so-called smoking gun, proof that the Patriots taped the St. Louis Rams' walk-through the night before the Super Bowl in 2002. Last week, Michael N. Levy, Walsh's attorney, said Walsh never claimed to have such a tape, never was a source of speculation that a tape existed, and was not the source of the Boston Herald story on Feb. 2, 2008 that said the Patriots taped the Rams walk-through.

[fredr123]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3394017

NEW YORK -- After meeting with former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh for more than three hours, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said no new information had come to light as a result and indicated that the Spygate scandal had run its course.

Goodell also said he was told by Walsh that the Patriots did not have a videotape of a walk-through practice of the St. Louis Rams prior to the 2002 Super Bowl. The Boston Herald had previously reported that such a tape existed, but Goodell said Tuesday he was able to verify that there is no such tape.

[habernac]

much ado about nothing

[troutman]

Originally Posted by habernac

much ado about nothing

lol - that is exactly what I was going to say

Hopefully, Bill is ticked-off enough to complete the 19-0 this year.

[Flames in 07]

well it does show that stealing signs has been a normal course of business for him.

Bill = evil football coach. Hopefully the football gods will give him his medicine again this year.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

well it does show that stealing signs has been a normal course of business for him.

Bill = evil football coach. Hopefully the football gods will give him his medicine again this year.

again, this is absolutely laughable. Every single team in the league is guilty of this and Bill bears the brunt of it? Yes, the rest of the teams and coaches are all angels.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by habernac

again, this is absolutely laughable. Every single team in the league is guilty of this and Bill bears the brunt of it? Yes, the rest of the teams and coaches are all angels.

well, for one I know some people thought this was a small contained incident, there is no huge smoking gun here but it does say that it's been going on for awhile.

Secondly I'm not sure what you are laughing at though. Unless you have actual proof or any experience working at the NFL level, how could you possibly know what is going on. For years I had been saying that it is as if the Patriots know what the play is, on offense anyway as they always seem to call the perfect play and make a very tough sport look easy.

Could it be that you just don't want to face that your team is a cheat and that their success in anyway is a function of the cheating?

Btw, It seems to me that video coaches who have been let go from around the league would be singing right now if what you say is true.

Anyway's it's old news, people know they cheated, they were punished, the patriots didn't appeal because they know they cheated, time for the nfl to move on.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by habernac

again, this is absolutely laughable. Every single team in the league is guilty of this and Bill bears the brunt of it? Yes, the rest of the teams and coaches are all angels.

The NFL did say that the case was closed and that Walsh provided no new information. In fact I think the Matt Walsh interview helped the Patriots, conspiracy theorists were all hoping that he held a secret piece of evidence that would shatter the legitimacy of the Patriots Dynasty. His interview revealed that there was no smoking gun and that the case is in fact closed. But if your going to believe that what the Patriots were punished for is no big deal, much like the NFL Commissioner, then you should also believe that no other NFL team is currently trying to steal signals illegally. There have been no allegations, rumors, or evidence to prove otherwise. Just like there is no evidence to prove that the Patriots benefited from some sort of illegal signal stealing before the Super Bowl with the St. Louis Rams. The NFL controlled media was very clear on this very point.

According to Sirius NFL Radio, NFL officials were secretly monitoring NFL teams on opening day last season to make sure that all NFL teams were in compliance with the letter that NFL Commissioner Roger Goddell had sent out regarding the stealing of signals. Only one team got caught. Apparently it makes Patriot fans feel better to point the finger at the rest at the league as well. When doing so they are lowering themselves to the same level as the conspiracy theorists who believe that the Patriots only reason for success was through cheating.

[troutman]

^^^^

Nonsense.

Of course other teams are stealing signals. Why do you think coaches are always covering their mouths when speaking?

Took me two minutes to dig up the following:

Stealing signals, spying are part of college football lore
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/cheat...ory?id=2947539

http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/...just-football/

The NFL doesn’t have any plans to investigate rumors that Dolphins coach Nick Saban may have purchased audio of quarterback Tom Brady’s cadence and protection calls. The reason is simple. A league spokesman said, “that’s just football.”

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...tealing_signs/

"Well, I mean, we all did it, and that was part of it, getting signals," he [John Madden] said. "Every coach in the world is always pushing to get a competitive advantage, that's always been happening.

"And if they are giving away cues, or clues, or whatever tendencies that you could pick up, you take them, and you play against them.

"Part of it is a player giving away a play. Part of it can be the snap count, part of it can be signals that they're signaling in, or you hear the things they yell. That's always been, happening from Day 1 of football.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/C...37311-sun.html

The idea is to follow the NFL's lead of allowing a coach to talk through a headset to his quarterback on the field - via a radio frequency and a speaker in the quarterback's helmet.

"We would very much support that (idea)," said Rick LeLacheur, the Eskimos president and CEO.

"We wanted it looked at for a couple of years. So no one can steal signals."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...nfl/index.html

The "stealing'' of signs -- both on offense and defense -- is the area that's most often cited as fertile ground for cheating. The most common practice is for a team to videotape an opponent's signal-givers on the sideline, and later marry up those indications to the game tape in order to identify tendencies or patterns.

Though no disciplinary action by the league ever resulted, the Patriots last year were reportedly the impetus of a sternly written letter from the league office to all teams, reminding them that it was illegal for an advance scout or personnel official to bring a video recording device of any kind into the press box for the purposes of taping a potential opponent's signals or play-calling gestures from the sideline.

Teams have also been chastised for having a second camera in the press box-area video box, with one camera shooting the game action and the other one being trained on the opposing team's signal-givers. On offense, that's why coaches have taken to holding their play-calling charts in front of their mouths when they're sending in the play to the quarterback via the radio headset system.

On defense, teams have gone to having two different signal callers, with one being a dummy signaler and other being responsible for the "hot,'' or real, call. Other teams use different color wrist bands during a game, with the defensive captain switching to a different color before each series, and the defensive signal-caller calling formations and blitzes from a list that corresponds with that color.

"That type of sign-stealing goes on a ton in the league,'' said one NFL source who was both a former coach and player in the league. "From a coaching standpoint, you know who's signaling in the personnel on the opposing sideline, and then there's another guy making the play calls on the headset. Defenses used to watch the play-caller, and if a guy spoke for a real long time, that was usually a pass, because the calls take longer. A run is always a shorter call. So coaches shield their mouths when they're calling plays now. If you make your calls out in the open, the other team will steal your signals and your tendencies.''

[burn_baby_burn]

^^ Yes, but all those practices and rumors are before the NFL's crack down on such activities at the start of last season. Since the crack down and enforcement of the new rules only one team has been caught. Some of what you quoted is just studying and observing your opponent. Using recording devices to capture signals is altogether different from seeing the signals with your own eyes from your own sideline.

I have no problem with the Patriots, I rooted my ass for them when they played the Rams in the Super Bowl (I usually cheer for the underdog when the Chiefs are not involved). But I find it interesting how Patriot fans get so defensive and upset about talk of the Patriots stealing signals, which they admitted to and were punished for, then turn around and point the finger at the rest of the league for the same thing when there is no evidence of such activity from any other team in the league since the beginning of the 2007 regular season.

I have to laugh at John Madden's quote. The entire Raider organization was know for cheating in the past, especially in his day. For a lot more than stealing signals.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

^^ Yes, but all those practices and rumors are before the NFL's crack down on such activities at the start of last season. Since the crack down and enforcement of the new rules only one team has been caught. Some of what you quoted is just studying and observing your opponent. Using recording devices to capture signals is altogether different from seeing the signals with your own eyes from your own sideline.

I have no problem with the Patriots, I rooted my ass for them when they played the Rams in the Super Bowl (I usually cheer for the underdog when the Chiefs are not involved). But I find it interesting how Patriot fans get so defensive and upset about talk of the Patriots stealing signals, which they admitted to and were punished for, then turn around and point the finger at the rest of the league for the same thing when there is no evidence of such activity from any other team in the league since the beginning of the 2007 regular season.

I have to laugh at John Madden's quote. The entire Raider organization was know for cheating in the past, especially in his day. For a lot more than stealing signals.

I find this interesting as well. My guess is that if NE was an average 8-8 team the patriot fan sentiment would be that he's cheating and giving the team a bad name, but because they have been as good as they have, they don't want to deal with the fact that maybe this has played a hand in their success and that is just incomprehensible.

[troutman]

Newspaper apologizes to Patriots:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

Patriots owner Robert Kraft held up a copy of the newspaper during an interview with CNBC on Wednesday.

He called the story "very damaging" and said he was glad the paper admitted its mistake. But he said the Herald's apology probably couldn't undo the damage to the team's reputation nationwide.

"This erroneous story coming out was really harmful, and what bothers me more about this story is where it went, throughout the country, where people don't know us as well," he said. "And unfortunately, now they won't see this retraction. But people who know us, know what we're about."

No evidence of other teams doing it? Maybe (and I don't think the NFL is looking very hard), but you are completely naive if you think it is not going on. Players and coaches admit it is happening all of the time.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by troutman

Newspaper apologizes to Patriots:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

Patriots owner Robert Kraft held up a copy of the newspaper during an interview with CNBC on Wednesday.

He called the story "very damaging" and said he was glad the paper admitted its mistake. But he said the Herald's apology probably couldn't undo the damage to the team's reputation nationwide.

"This erroneous story coming out was really harmful, and what bothers me more about this story is where it went, throughout the country, where people don't know us as well," he said. "And unfortunately, now they won't see this retraction. But people who know us, know what we're about."

No evidence of other teams doing it? Maybe (and I don't think the NFL is looking very hard), but you are completely naive if you think it is not going on. Players and coaches admit it is happening all of the time.

I think we have no idea how hard the NFL has been looking. Players and coaches have admitted to creating a film library of signals? I hope you are not suggesting that. It's one thing to have the binoculars in the press box spying on a sideline (which I believe is inside the rules) but to have a library of film is quite another, and folks are way to pessimistic if they think everyone has one of those.

Last year in week 1, they found only 1 team. The Patriots, what are the odds that they only found 1 team (even though they all must do it) AND they only found one former employee who happened to work for the same patriots team?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I think we have no idea how hard the NFL has been looking. Players and coaches have admitted to creating a film library of signals? I hope you are not suggesting that. It's one thing to have the binoculars in the press box spying on a sideline (which I believe is inside the rules) but to have a library of film is quite another, and folks are way to pessimistic if they think everyone has one of those.

Last year in week 1, they found only 1 team. The Patriots, what are the odds that they only found 1 team (even though they all must do it) AND they only found one former employee who happened to work for the same patriots team?

Sorry, I think we are talking past each other. The Pats were the only team caught video-taping signals. I think all the teams are trying to steal signals, using a variety of methods.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by troutman

Sorry, I think we are talking past each other. The Pats are be the only team caught video-taping signals. I think all the teams are trying to steal signals, using a variety of methods.

K, and I believe as far as the NFL is concerned some methods are ok, and some are not. I don't believe at any time the NFL has said that nobody can ever look at the other bench and try to figure out what is going on.

My point is that the Patriots, and the Patriots alone have been caught crossing the line, and my observation is that patriot fans seem militant that somehow either because everyone else must be doing it, or because it is no big deal, the pats haven't been cheaters for the last several years ... which doesn't make much sense to me.

[burn_baby_burn]

Also Troutman, what I was really trying to say in my earlier post was that it is naive to think that no other NFL team in the past has used illegal methods to steal opposing teams signals, just as its naive to think that the Patriots didn't benefit in some way from the spying activities that they have admitted to and have apologized for. Or at least the NFL wants us to belief that no other teams are cheating and the one that was caught didn't benifit in anyway what so ever.

The only real problem I have had with this whole thing from day 1 is that the NFL appeared to be hiding something. The media that they control, Sirius 124 and the NFL Network (especially Sirius), said it was no big deal and it was a single isolated incident, case closed. Then during the Super Bowl it comes to light that Belichek had admitted to video taping his opponents since day 1 as the Patriots head coach. Still not really a big deal since it is in the past anyway. Although some may be suspicious as to how successful the Patriots may have been without the spying, but that is hard for anybody to determine one way or another.

Yesterday morning Adam Shine(?) had his lips glued to Roger Goddell's butt the entire broadcast. I'm surprised he could talk.