Photo essay of the Torch Relay in SF

[HOZ]

This picture sums up my feeling about the pro-China supporters



Have a look at the rest

[Daradon]

Wow, a great link HOZ, thanks for sharing! Got a lot out of that.

[Option84]

Actually the greater hypocrisy lies in the fact that most of the stuff that that guy owns was probably made in China. Like I said, this is not the way to inspire change. Hit em where it hurts, the bottom line.

[jammies]

That photo essay is really well done. Good job finding that HOZ, it was very interesting.

[Hack&Lube]

The photoessay was interesting. The agenda was blatant. I'm sorry but I'm not going to stomach this sort of stuff purely from one side only.

Go ahead and attack the government and politics of china, but many of the common pro-chinese supporters who are showing up at these rallies only feel that they are being attacked, that this is a form of racism, and that this is just another example of mistreatment and hypocracy from the west regarding how it has treated chinese for most of the 19th and 20th centuries.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The photoessay was interesting. The agenda was blatant. I'm sorry but I'm not going to stomach this sort of stuff purely from one side only.

Go ahead and attack the government and politics of china, but many of the common pro-chinese supporters who are showing up at these rallies only feel that they are being attacked, that this is a form of racism, and that this is just another example of mistreatment and hypocracy from the west regarding how it has treated chinese for most of the 19th and 20th centuries.

I don't know, didn't seem that those protestors were anti-racism but rather pro-china.

Not sure why someone who flees China and communism for a life of democracy and freedom would use that freedom to fly the flag of their former homeland unless they were very confused about their current position in life?


Why did they leave Chine then?

(For a worse life?)


Would China tolerate pro-America protests and hundreds of giant American flags?

(People would not only 'not be allowed' but would killed at protests and then the leaders would be imprisoned.)


Do you know how many people have been killed in Tibet?

(Or wait, no one knows for sure because the press was all forcibly removed and those posting on the internet (and getting past filters) have been imprisoned!)



I do not know anyone personally who has confused racism with natural rights on this matter. I think anti-China protestors who are Chinese (of which there are many) are just as accepted as those who are not.

And many/most of the pro-China protestors (here and in Europe) seem to be foreign students studying at western universities being bused in, and i wonder with whose money? And why do we care what brainwashed Chinese citizens most likely privilaged by China's current political arrangement and among the ruling elite think about China's policies? Of COURSE they like them! They should be holding signs thanking us for letting them protest as foreigners in a foreign country.

I hate to touch on this, because it is such a fine line to walk without offending anyone despite the fact it is a legitimate point, but by far the least informed people i have met on this issue are SOME WesternWorld-Chinese people (many of whom are my friends) who are first/second generation here but feel some sort of patriotism for home and mindlessly defend the wrong side of this debate and are defending protestors (who themselves have been given the right to protest/rally for god sakes!) here over hundreds (and in the case of Darfur millions!?) of innocent lives abroad who are afforded no such rights by China in their own home nations or China itself.

As for hypocracy, don't confuse protestors with governments. No one is defending American foreign policy either. I have a pretty strong feeling most of the protestors against China would also be against past (and present, and future) policies of America too!

Casting anti-China-policy protestors as anti-Chinese-person protestors is as bad as casting anti-Iraq war protestors as anti-America. People protesting care about voiceless people and voiceless victims - period.



For the first time ever HOZ and i (more-or-less) agree!


Claeren.

[Knut]

^^^ Great post!!

[Azure]

Pretty interesting.

I hope this 'protest' gains some strength, and people begin boycotting China.

[nik-]

I find the "Hypocrite Chinese" sign completely hilarious considering all these people live in a country that is torturing people in Guantanamo.

[Domer]

Here is a bunch of chinese protesting against france.... ooops, but thats a Netherland flag...

thats the problem when you dont have access to google, youtube and wikipedia.....




http://www.chinaherald.net/2008/04/b...-in-hefei.html

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Claeren

I don't know, didn't seem that those protestors were anti-racism but rather pro-china.

Not sure why someone who flees China and communism for a life of democracy and freedom would use that freedom to fly the flag of their former homeland unless they were very confused about their current position in life?


Why did they leave Chine then?

(For a worse life?)

That's a terrible point, people emmigrate to countries all the time but still retain loyalties to their home country. If you move to the U.S. or Britain because of better job opportunities don't you still have some Canadian nationalism/patriotism? China is not an oppressive iron curtain that people must "flee" from. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese emmigrate to other countries globablly every year for job opportunities, overseas work, or education. Do you expect these people who were raised in China, as Chinese to suddenly turn their backs and spit on their own country, family, and people? Most Chinese who emmigrate from China are not doing it for democracy or freedom - but for economic opportunities. China is not as oppressive as you have believe. If Canada was hosting the Olympics and European protesters were violently protesting the Seal Hunt or Canada's record with the First Nations (both of which I have experienced in Europe), would you not feel some desire to defend Canada's right to hold the Olympics? Even some hint of nationalism? I'm not equating those two issues with Tibet, but simply trying to point out an analogous situation.

Would China tolerate pro-America protests and hundreds of giant American flags?

(People would not only 'not be allowed' but would killed at protests and then the leaders would be imprisoned.)


Do you know how many people have been killed in Tibet?

(Or wait, no one knows for sure because the press was all forcibly removed and those posting on the internet (and getting past filters) have been imprisoned!)

Ridiculous generalization, the issue is not if China would allow protests but how people are being condemed for feeling loyal or patriotic toward their own people. I'm not going to defend China's record, but China of 2008 is not China of 1989. Bringing up how many people have been killed in Tibet is no rationalization for attacking those that might support China.

I do not know anyone personally who has confused racism with natural rights on this matter. I think anti-China protestors who are Chinese (of which there are many) are just as accepted as those who are not.

And many/most of the pro-China protestors (here and in Europe) seem to be foreign students studying at western universities being bused in, and i wonder with whose money? And why do we care what brainwashed Chinese citizens most likely privilaged by China's current political arrangement and among the ruling elite think about China's policies? Of COURSE they like them! They should be holding signs thanking us for letting them protest as foreigners in a foreign country.

I hate to touch on this, because it is such a fine line to walk without offending anyone despite the fact it is a legitimate point, but by far the least informed people i have met on this issue are SOME WesternWorld-Chinese people (many of whom are my friends) who are first/second generation here but feel some sort of patriotism for home and mindlessly defend the wrong side of this debate and are defending protestors (who themselves have been given the right to protest/rally for god sakes!) here over hundreds (and in the case of Darfur millions!?) of innocent lives abroad who are afforded no such rights by China in their own home nations or China itself.

As for hypocracy, don't confuse protestors with governments. No one is defending American foreign policy either. I have a pretty strong feeling most of the protestors against China would also be against past (and present, and future) policies of America too!

Casting anti-China-policy protestors as anti-Chinese-person protestors is as bad as casting anti-Iraq war protestors as anti-America. People protesting care about voiceless people and voiceless victims - period.

For the first time ever HOZ and i (more-or-less) agree!

Claeren.

I concur that many Chinese nationals are persuaded by how they were raised and educated to defend Chinese interests and politics. I would not say brainwashed. The photoessay has many pictures, including the one posted in this very thread, of people attacking the pro-chinese supporters instead of attacking China and I feel that is misguided hate and a boatload of hypocracy therein of itself. That is where I take offense to these sorts of protests.

It's kind of funny, all these western countries and their protesters and movements decrying a nation that was trampled over by western nations (not only European but American) only a century ago. I have absolutely no ties to China, in fact, I detest China and would never want to visit there, but I am chinese by ethnicity. My parents are British citizens care of Hong Kong...but I have a sense of history and I'm sure many of these pro-China supporters/defenders also do - even if distorted by how their were raised or their own government. Some do see it as a form of western oppression or another outlet for racism, opportunistic racism.

You are also throwing all people Chinese ethnicity into the same bucket. The Taiwanese protesters certainly have legitimate grievances as those who have legitimately escaped China because of political/religious persecution. Those are however, a drop in the bucket compared to these masses of Chinese who emmigrate worldwide freely because of economic opportunity.

I really don't understand how you can say things like:

And why do we care what brainwashed Chinese citizens most likely privilaged by China's current political arrangement and among the ruling elite

I fear you really have a very distorted understanding of this. The Chinese students who study worldwide and many of the families who emmigrate to other countries are not "the political elite" nor are they often "priviledged". I know many immgrant Chinese families here in Calgary who can't even afford furniture and live off donated clothes. Many students are in the same boat. China is NOT a bloody iron curtain. Most people are free to come and go.