Democratic Presidential Primaries 2008

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

My bad--I see now where I misread you.

Its all good.

Back to Obama though....I'm not watching the news much lately, so I have no idea HOW he responded, but I know a LOT of people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and are waiting for what he has to say about his screwup.

And rightly so I suppose....sure, I think he's an elitist who has no idea what living in a small rural community means....and his campaign WOULD be better off if he wouldn't come across as such an arrogant person, but politicians HAVE to be arrogant in a way.

His response the day after about having to 'endure' living in a 3 room house without a garage, which forced him to scrape the ice off his car windows in the morning....well, it wasn't very impressive.

He might not have a trust fund, but that still doesn't mean he knows what 'poverty' or being 'poor' means. His grandmother was not a poor person....and he never lacked anything growing up. So trying to tell people that he did is pathetic.

Personally, I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with having a trust fund, or going to a private school, or being priviledged because your parents worked hard to provide for you. That is the goal of every parent....to provide the best for their children. But Obama shouldn't be trying to tell people that he never had the 'best'.....because growing up, he was a heck of a lot more priviledged than a LOT of other people.

But given what people who know him personally have told me about his attitude and feelings towards the lower class, I'm actually not THAT surprised that he seems to be coming across as arrogant, or an elitist.

If he really wants to 'unite' the country.....he should start by uniting the Democratic party first and foremost, and then not pushing people who would otherwise vote for him(going back to your comment about the Republicans pissing off that rural, smalltown base).....to turn away.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

Its all good.

Back to Obama though....I'm not watching the news much lately, so I have no idea HOW he responded, but I know a LOT of people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and are waiting for what he has to say about his screwup.

And rightly so I suppose....sure, I think he's an elitist who has no idea what living in a small rural community means....and his campaign WOULD be better off if he wouldn't come across as such an arrogant person, but politicians HAVE to be arrogant in a way.

His response the day after about having to 'endure' living in a 3 room house without a garage, which forced him to scrape the ice off his car windows in the morning....well, it wasn't very impressive.

He might not have a trust fund, but that still doesn't mean he knows what 'poverty' or being 'poor' means. His grandmother was not a poor person....and he never lacked anything growing up. So trying to tell people that he did is pathetic.

Personally, I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with having a trust fund, or going to a private school, or being priviledged because your parents worked hard to provide for you. That is the goal of every parent....to provide the best for their children. But Obama shouldn't be trying to tell people that he never had the 'best'.....because growing up, he was a heck of a lot more priviledged than a LOT of other people.

But given what people who know him personally have told me about his attitude and feelings towards the lower class, I'm actually not THAT surprised that he seems to be coming across as arrogant, or an elitist.

If he really wants to 'unite' the country.....he should start by uniting the Democratic party first and foremost, and then not pushing people who would otherwise vote for him(going back to your comment about the Republicans pissing off that rural, smalltown base).....to turn away.

Now you have people on the inside feeding you personal information about the guy? Impressive.

As for all this elitist and arrogance nonsense, it is suddenly convenient and people who don't like him are making sure everyone hears it. The last two candidates got the same treatment, but at least they were a couple bluebloods.

And really, you can't blame them. There are millions of people out there dumb enough to buy the downhomey Texas straightalker routine from the current President. It won't be very hard to convince those same people that a working class black guy from Hawaii is really an arrogant elitist who doesn't like poor people.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Azure

Where did I say Obama called rural people racists and bigots?

There was another poster in this thread who implied that rural people are racist and bigots.

Obama would have bowed out of the campaign by now had he said something like that.

That was me, and I said from my experience there's a lot of bigotry and racism in rural communities. Never said everyone was like that. Many of my friends and two of my roommates are from very small towns (under 2,000). I lived in a town of about 5,000 for most of 3 years. Rural people are just like everyone else (good and bad) except they lack the education and societal conditioning of urban/surburban life, hence a lot of racism and bigotry.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

That was me, and I said from my experience there's a lot of bigotry and racism in rural communities. Never said everyone was like that. Many of my friends and two of my roommates are from very small towns (under 2,000). I lived in a town of about 5,000 for most of 3 years. Rural people are just like everyone else (good and bad) except they lack the education and societal conditioning of urban/surburban life, hence a lot of racism and bigotry.

Oh, so the 'urban' life suddenly makes people 'less' likely to be racist.

Good to know.

I guess there are no racist people in Calgary.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Now you have people on the inside feeding you personal information about the guy? Impressive.

Inside?

If you call it that. I've talked to a few people who know Obama personally. All of them really like him, but they also mentioned his elitist attitude.

Of course there is nothing wrong with that, if Obama doesn't bring it across in an arrogant tone.

Telling people he doesn't know that they're bitter for any reason is being an arrogant ass.

As for all this elitist and arrogance nonsense, it is suddenly convenient and people who don't like him are making sure everyone hears it. The last two candidates got the same treatment, but at least they were a couple bluebloods.

So, when people don't like him, they're supposed to shutup?

He brought this upon himself, not the other way around.

I have this strange feeling that if Obama wouldn't keep sticking his foot into his own mouth, people wouldn't be disliking him.

And really, you can't blame them. There are millions of people out there dumb enough to buy the downhomey Texas straightalker routine from the current President. It won't be very hard to convince those same people that a working class black guy from Hawaii is really an arrogant elitist who doesn't like poor people.

Eh?

Apparently a few of those 'dumb' people are voting for Obama....or going to, if you look at the polls.

I guess they must have been dumb enough to be suckered into believing the rhetoric and finger-waving Obama keeps doing.

No wonder why he doesn't want to debate anymore.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh, so the 'urban' life suddenly makes people 'less' likely to be racist.

Good to know.

I guess there are no racist people in Calgary.

Yes, yes it does. Especially living in Calgary. In Calgary you deal with diversity everyday and your cultural education is evolved. In small-town Idaho, you never deal with diversity and your cultural education can be ignored completely if you so choose.

Of course their are racists everywhere, just less so and not of the same variety in Calgary.

In case you were wondering there's heavy racism against Mexicans in small town Idaho.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh, so the 'urban' life suddenly makes people 'less' likely to be racist.

There have been numerous polls that show that to be the case, so yes, I would say "urban life" suddenly makes people "less" likely to be racist.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

So, when people don't like him, they're supposed to shutup?

No, they are supposed to actually talk about what they don't like instead of making up this elitist/arrogance crap to smear the guy with.

I'm not lucky enough to gab with his friends, but I know from simply reading a bit about him that he's actually in the position he is in because of his own brains and hard work, not his daddy's connections or money.

Loyal Republicanss/conservatives who would label this guy an elitist or a snob are really not in a position to say such a thing about him, considering who they've been supporting for the last 8 years.

I wonder if we'll hear the word "uppity" from one of them clever conservative pundits anytime soon. It seems the logical next step.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

There have been numerous polls that show that to be the case, so yes, I would say "urban life" suddenly makes people "less" likely to be racist.

Link?

Interesting to say the least....but going from personal experience, as having gone to high school in a rural community, I would certainly disagree.

I can't recall one single incident that was driven by racism.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

No, they are supposed to actually talk about what they don't like instead of making up this elitist/arrogance crap to smear the guy with.

Dude, they're not the ones coming up with these 'smear' campaigns.

Obama is making these comments, and he needs to be challenged because of them.

I'm not lucky enough to gab with his friends, but I know from simply reading a bit about him that he's actually in the position he is in because of his own brains and hard work, not his daddy's connections or money.

Hilarious. Who ever said he was? Obama is the one telling people he had it 'hard' because he grew up in a 3 room house in Chicago without a garage, and he had to scrape ice of his windows in the morning.

Boohoo.

Loyal Republicanss/conservatives who would label this guy an elitist or a snob are really not in a position to say such a thing about him, considering who they've been supporting for the last 8 years.

Hilarious once again.

I didn't realize that because someone voted for Bush in 04, or in 2000....they're not allowed to have an opinion on Obama.

I wonder if we'll hear the word "uppity" from one of them clever conservative pundits anytime soon. It seems the logical next step.

Yep, just as soon as Obama makes another ######ed comment.

Given his history so far....I'm sure that will happen.

And you know what else will happen? People like you will say there is nothing wrong with insulting people. People he doesn't even know, and a way of life he has NEVER experienced.

Growing up under the roof of someone who happened to be an executive at a bank, living in a 3 room house, WITHOUT a garage, and going to a private school doesn't sound like a 'tough' childhood to me.

The funniest/saddest part in all this....is the fact that the past 8 years people constantly jumped on me here at CP, including you Rouge, for my apparent 'support' for Bush. Blind support.....is what people said.

And now, when I remain skeptical about a different candidate, suddenly I'm just a dumb person, because apparently I SHOULD blindly support Obama, and no matter WHAT he says, there is nothing wrong with it.

I grew up in a small town, basically....and the only 'bitter' feelings I have is towards people like Obama and others who try to tell me I'm racist, a bigot, bitter....or that I cling to guns and religion in dire teams.

Absolutely hilarious.

[AnarChrist]

Originally Posted by Azure

Dude, they're not the ones coming up with these 'smear' campaigns.

Obama is making these comments, and he needs to be challenged because of them.

Hilarious. Who ever said he was? Obama is the one telling people he had it 'hard' because he grew up in a 3 room house in Chicago without a garage, and he had to scrape ice of his windows in the morning.

Boohoo.

Hilarious once again.

I didn't realize that because someone voted for Bush in 04, or in 2000....they're not allowed to have an opinion on Obama.

Yep, just as soon as Obama makes another ######ed comment.

Given his history so far....I'm sure that will happen.

And you know what else will happen? People like you will say there is nothing wrong with insulting people. People he doesn't even know, and a way of life he has NEVER experienced.

Growing up under the roof of someone who happened to be an executive at a bank, living in a 3 room house, WITHOUT a garage, and going to a private school doesn't sound like a 'tough' childhood to me.

The funniest/saddest part in all this....is the fact that the past 8 years people constantly jumped on me here at CP, including you Rouge, for my apparent 'support' for Bush. Blind support.....is what people said.

And now, when I remain skeptical about a different candidate, suddenly I'm just a dumb person, because apparently I SHOULD blindly support Obama, and no matter WHAT he says, there is nothing wrong with it.

I grew up in a small town, basically....and the only 'bitter' feelings I have is towards people like Obama and others who try to tell me I'm racist, a bigot, bitter....or that I cling to guns and religion in dire teams.

Absolutely hilarious.

For a guy that spends so much time online you sure don't know much. Maybe its where you get your information. I suggest you try reading Dreams of My Father and Audacity of Hope to fill in the gaps in your knowledge about Barack Obama. After reading these books you might actually find that he has a lot more to offer your kind than you think. He reaches out to people of all walks of life, even once hardened republicans. Start reading with this column.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-...e_b_97336.html

[Azure]

Originally Posted by AnarChrist

For a guy that spends so much time online you sure don't know much. Maybe its where you get your information. I suggest you try reading Dreams of My Father and Audacity of Hope to fill in the gaps in your knowledge about Barack Obama. After reading these books you might actually find that he has a lot more to offer your kind than you think. He reaches out to people of all walks of life, even once hardened republicans. Start reading with this column.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-...e_b_97336.html

Can I quote Fox News next time?

What about Rush Limbaugh? Maybe Sean Hannity would work good too, eh?

For someone who tries to tell people they don't know much, linking a notorious liberal site is the best you can do?

I never said Obama doesn't 'offer' anything....every candidate does. This has never been about his 'policies'...but about his habit to make stupid comments that happen to insult people.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Yes, yes it does. Especially living in Calgary. In Calgary you deal with diversity everyday and your cultural education is evolved. In small-town Idaho, you never deal with diversity and your cultural education can be ignored completely if you so choose.

Of course their are racists everywhere, just less so and not of the same variety in Calgary.

In case you were wondering there's heavy racism against Mexicans in small town Idaho.

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

There have been numerous polls that show that to be the case, so yes, I would say "urban life" suddenly makes people "less" likely to be racist.

I'll take this bet on, our city mouse looking down on our country mouse. This looks like one of those lies, damn lies then there are statistics bit.

300 racists in Cowville, a city of 1 million.

5 racist in.....Banff Alberta. A population of 7500.


KKK Banff there is a racist for every 1500 people

In Upstanding Cowville there is only a racist for every 3333 people.


Banff is obviously more racist! But then you use your head and think. In Calgary the numbers would overflow any local community centre and out number any police station. In Banff they could hold their meeting in a closet.

[Weiser Wonder]

I was talking about systematic racism/bigotry built into a belief system. "We are better than the Mexicans." "Being gay is wrong" Not active racism where people go out and commit hate crimes. That's different and obviously extremely rare. This kind of racism/bigotry will be more reflected in policy and day-to-day treatment in the small town.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

I didn't realize that because someone voted for Bush in 04, or in 2000....they're not allowed to have an opinion on Obama.

That wasn't really the point.

A Bush supporter hacking on Obama for being an elitist snob is like a guy who drives a Rolls-Royce saying he'd never drive a Honda because it is too flashy.

Originally Posted by Azure

And now, when I remain skeptical about a different candidate, suddenly I'm just a dumb person, because apparently I SHOULD blindly support Obama, and no matter WHAT he says, there is nothing wrong with it.

That "dumb" crack wasn't directed at you at all. Sorry if you thought so.

It was directed at the people, and there apparently a lot of them, who actually believe the whole "George W. is a Texas ranch-hand with the callouses and accent to prove it" charade. You and I disagree on most things on this here OT board, but you've made it pretty clear that you are informed enough on these subjects to know how "true" that is.

Originally Posted by Azure

I grew up in a small town, basically....and the only 'bitter' feelings I have is towards people like Obama and others who try to tell me I'm racist, a bigot, bitter....or that I cling to guns and religion in dire teams.

You are really putting a lot of added meaning into the word "bitter". Granted, it was a poor choice of words, but I don't know how you get "racist and bigot" out of what he said, or how it is an insult to every small-townie, farmer or non-urban-dweller in North America.

Are the people in rural Pennsylvania bitter about their lot in life? I don't know. I don't know anyone who lives there. If some guy lost his job 25 years ago and nothing ever came back then I'd guess they are probably bitter about something or other. I know I would be.

As for all this "there are bigot and racists in the big city just like there are in rural communities", of course there are. But really...

Experiment: Put 20 farmers around one campfire, 20 rigpigs around another one and 20 office-dwelling city boys around another and start the stopwatch on who tells the first Indian joke (dot or feather).

The riggers 'll win every time and the cubliclers will come in last.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The riggers 'll win every time and the cubliclers will come in last.

I'll take that bet too.

[AnarChrist]

Originally Posted by Azure

Can I quote Fox News next time?

What about Rush Limbaugh? Maybe Sean Hannity would work good too, eh?

For someone who tries to tell people they don't know much, linking a notorious liberal site is the best you can do?

I never said Obama doesn't 'offer' anything....every candidate does. This has never been about his 'policies'...but about his habit to make stupid comments that happen to insult people.

Sure. Quote whoever you like from where ever you like. Just continues to prove that you don't know much about what you talk about and what little effort you'll put into learning more. I don't think that it would be a surprise to anyone who reads this forum that you get your information from those sources you listed since that is the position you tend to cling to.

You should read the link I posted. It was written by someone who knows your point of view very well. He and his father helped establish the political and religious links that exist in right wing politics today so he knows very well where you come from.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

I was talking about systematic racism/bigotry built into a belief system. "We are better than the Mexicans." "Being gay is wrong" Not active racism where people go out and commit hate crimes. That's different and obviously extremely rare. This kind of racism/bigotry will be more reflected in policy and day-to-day treatment in the small town.

Well, considering that the Mexicans come into the country to supposedly do the jobs that so many Americans apparently want nothing of, I wouldn't be surprised if many rural people felt that way.

And just because you think being gay is wrong....doesn't make you a bigot. Last time I checked....having an opinion of right and wrong doesn't make you a racist, or a bigot.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by AnarChrist

I don't think that it would be a surprise to anyone who reads this forum that you get your information from those sources you listed since that is the position you tend to cling to.

And you get your information from liberal leaning sites.

Whats the difference?

But its nice of you to come tell me how I think.

On page 34 no less.

Gotta love the driveby posts.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

That wasn't really the point.

A Bush supporter hacking on Obama for being an elitist snob is like a guy who drives a Rolls-Royce saying he'd never drive a Honda because it is too flashy.

Again, how cares what car he drives?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Obama NEEDS to be challenged on the comments that he makes. For some reason you feel he should be given a free reign.

That "dumb" crack wasn't directed at you at all. Sorry if you thought so.

It was directed at the people, and there apparently a lot of them, who actually believe the whole "George W. is a Texas ranch-hand with the callouses and accent to prove it" charade. You and I disagree on most things on this here OT board, but you've made it pretty clear that you are informed enough on these subjects to know how "true" that is.

Sure.

You are really putting a lot of added meaning into the word "bitter". Granted, it was a poor choice of words, but I don't know how you get "racist and bigot" out of what he said, or how it is an insult to every small-townie, farmer or non-urban-dweller in North America.

Again, someone else in this thread said that rural people are more racist and homophobic than urban people.

IMO, telling people who live a way of life Obama NEVER has, that they're bitter, and cling to guns and religion....is insulting them. The thing of it is...Obama made a speech a few weeks ago about stereotyping....yet, here he goes and does the EXACT thing he was preaching against.

Are the people in rural Pennsylvania bitter about their lot in life? I don't know. I don't know anyone who lives there. If some guy lost his job 25 years ago and nothing ever came back then I'd guess they are probably bitter about something or other. I know I would be.

I'm sure there are bitter people in rural Pennsylvania....just like there are bitter people in urban DC. And in San Francisco, or Chicago where Obama lives.

Like, all those homeless people. I'm sure they are bitter.

As for all this "there are bigot and racists in the big city just like there are in rural communities", of course there are. But really...

Experiment: Put 20 farmers around one campfire, 20 rigpigs around another one and 20 office-dwelling city boys around another and start the stopwatch on who tells the first Indian joke (dot or feather).

The riggers 'll win every time and the cubliclers will come in last.

And based on that you think rural people are more racist and urban people?

Give me a break.

The analogy Hoz talked about is probably more correct than any example you give.

There are racist people in ALL areas of the country.