Building a new deck

[GoinAllTheWay]

Freakin search function, could have sworn I have seen threads on this.

Anyhoo, I am wanting to rip out my current deck and build a new one. Hoping someone here may be able to suggest a good book on the subject or perhaps a website of sorts?

Nothing complicated. I currently live in a condo that has a smaller backyard. The enitre back yard is deck save for a section of soil that has a couple shrubs growing out of it. Dimensions are approx 20'x15'. The current deck is supported by those concrete tiles most people make sidewalks out of. Kinda dumb as they are not really meant to carry that kind of weight I don't think.

So bascially it is just a replacement and I want to put the new one in on similar supports but ones actually meant for a deck. I guess there are pylons of sorts that take the place of the poured concrete ones you usually see under decks.

Just bascially wondering what the procedure is for preparing the actual soild under the deck. My tentative plan is:

-Tear out old deck
-Remove old concrete tiles
-Grade the soil so it's even and then pound it down?
-Dig 1 foot deep holes where I want the new support pylons to go
-Fill bottom of said holes sand and then fill in holes with gravel
-Place new pylons on gravel and build deck from there

Sound about right?

[Nufy]

Your holes have to be below the frost line.

I'm not sure if 1 foot is deep enough.

When I did my fence I went down until I struck Clay...\

It may be different for Decks though.

[I_am_Beast]

I've use the new post supports from Home depot, twice now... work great.

They are long spikes you bang int teh ground and then bolt the post to the spike, I've made 2 decks, one 25 x 13 , 3 feet off the ground, another 27 x 12 , 1 foot off teh ground, they worked awsome. even had an inspection done on the higher one, he said it'll out last the house....LOL

I like them cause you can pound in all your posts easy and start building asap. Also if you need to replace a post, it'll just unbolt for ya.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by I_am_Beast

I've use the new post supports from Home depot, twice now... work great.

They are long spikes you bang int teh ground and then bolt the post to the spike, I've made 2 decks, one 25 x 13 , 3 feet off the ground, another 27 x 12 , 1 foot off teh ground, they worked awsome. even had an inspection done on the higher one, he said it'll out last the house....LOL

I like them cause you can pound in all your posts easy and start building asap. Also if you need to replace a post, it'll just unbolt for ya.

That's what I'm talking about! I was hoping to avoid having to buy/pour concrete and this sound right up my alley. Will take a look for those this weekend.

[skins]

Originally Posted by I_am_Beast

They are long spikes you bang int teh ground and then bolt the post to the spike, I've made 2 decks, one 25 x 13 , 3 feet off the ground, another 27 x 12 , 1 foot off teh ground, they worked awsome. even had an inspection done on the higher one, he said it'll out last the house....LOL

THat sounds like it would work pretty good. How big are these posts and how do you drive them into the ground?

I wouldn't worry too much about getting below frost line with a deck. I might keep your deck more level but you shouldn't notice any big difference. I think frost line in Calgary is around 4 to 5 feet.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by skins

THat sounds like it would work pretty good. How big are these posts and how do you drive them into the ground?

I wouldn't worry too much about getting below frost line with a deck. I might keep your deck more level but you shouldn't notice any big difference. I think frost line in Calgary is around 4 to 5 feet.

Wow, that would be a call before you dig scenario. I have no idea what runs under my deck, pretty sure there is at least 1 gas line.

[ken0042]

The big thing is- how high off the ground will this deck be?

I like the idea of concrete piles. Yes, call the Alberta 1 Call people, and as I have found with so many of my home renovations: "Do it once and do it right." Are you planning on staying there for several years? Then do it right.

Even if you are planning on selling, you don't want to sell your place, buyer does a home inspection and finds the deck doesn't have appropriate support- giving him a reason to ask you to drop the price by a few thousand or lose the deal.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Not high at all, half a foot would be enough I'm sure unless there is a code for that kind of thing?

I like doing the job solidly regardless of what I'm doing with the place. Just trying to jack up the value so the equity is nice and high for when I do buy an actual house.

[I_am_Beast]

Originally Posted by skins

THat sounds like it would work pretty good. How big are these posts and how do you drive them into the ground?

I wouldn't worry too much about getting below frost line with a deck. I might keep your deck more level but you shouldn't notice any big difference. I think frost line in Calgary is around 4 to 5 feet.

these spikes are about 3 1/2 feet long , you can get bigger ones, they look like huge tent spikes but with a 4 x 4 clamp on the top to bolt in the post.

I just stuck in a chunk of wood and used a 25lb sledge hammer, knocked in 12 in under an hour. ( good work out, some harder than others )

yep call the 'before you dig' people these spikes will cause damage and once they in , they not moving.

There's 2 types, one with an adjustable nut on the top to swivel the 4x4 clamp around so you can square up your posts....the other don't... i tried them both... the extra $2.oo for the swivel ones are worth it. ( never know it you'll hit a rock )

the price is right, when i both these they were under $20.00ea last year they sold out of these things fast.

They also work great if you making a fence where you need to move a section from time to time, it just unbolts, and away ya go.

[Flames_Gimp]

i did concrete piles 4' deep in the ground. wasn't too hard or expensive.

[ken0042]

Something I thought of.... what don't you call the Alberta 1 call, and then use mostly 4 foot piles, then surface ones where you can't dig? Depending on where the holes are you could probably pull it off; unless there's more than one trench that was dug when your house was built.

[PsYcNeT]

Heh weird

As the Alberta 1 Call web-guy, I'll tell you, that ANY (1 foot or even less) ground disturbance should be called in.

U/G utility lines migrate due to tectonic shifts, rain, groundswell, heat, cold, road grading, vegetation, etc etc etc and a gasline originally buried 3 feet deep can move to less than 6 inches below the surface.

As well, the frost line in Calgary is ~5-6 feet down, and most decking piles only go 3-4 feet.

Remember! Alberta 1 Call requires a minimum 2 full working days notice to complete a locate, and after 12 PM there is a one day carry over, so call early, and call in the morning!

(or contact me directly, and put it in online at www.alberta1call.com , it's free!)

[peter12]

I put my posts at 5' and then filled them in with concrete.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think the ease of digging the holes depends on where you are in the city. In Sunnyside I easily dig a 5 foot hole with a shovel in a minute or two. In Bankview at my buddy's house we broke the auger on the end of a bobcat off due to the massive boulders.

Just try digging (after the 1st call thing) a hole and see how easy it is.

Other reasons to call and line locate is that the record keeping on where lines are put sucks (historically) and you cannot trust that someone didn;t cut some corners by not burying them deep enough.

Oh, for sure. I dug the whole with a hand auger and it didn't end up taking me too long, about 10 minutes per hole, but sometimes I'd hit fair-sized rocks that I'd have to get out with a smash bar.

[Rathji]

-Tear out old deck
-Remove old concrete tiles

-Grade the soil so it's even and then pound it down?

Loam ( black dirt ) when disturbed cannot be packed down to adequately support any type of structure reliably. You must put whatever you are doing be it concrete piles, The spikey things people are talking about here into undisturbed earth - Which means 1-2 years or longer of not being dug up, possibly more if the area never recieves water from rain ( as water causes the coil to settle.

Clay ( the Yellow/ Brownish type dirt ) is better, but again if you gotta dig it up or are putting new stuff in do NOT count on it being supportive in a manner that is sufficient.

I would suggest using road crush ( 3/4 inch unwashed gravel that they put on gravel roads ) or alternately a mix or road crush/pit run to fill in any holes you create from pulling up old piling. It is probably cheaper, more supportive and will compact in a manner that will make it stable. Also it will be more resistant to water erosion so your deck doesn't have one of its new pilings settle and twist your deck.

-Dig 1 foot deep holes where I want the new support pylons to go

As I think has been said. 4 feet is the frost line. Put any posts down at least that far. I would use a bobcat auger but I have one available, a hang auger would get the job done just as well if your soil/clay is not extremely rocky. I have no idea what the spike things people are talking about but I am wondering if they will actually prevent heave due to freeze or if they are merely to prevent your deck from moving around. If it doesn't prevent movement due to heave then you might want to consider 4 foot post holes.

-Fill bottom of said holes sand and then fill in holes with gravel

Gravel around your pilings is a great idea. Again road crush or a mixture of pit run/road crush would work well.

-Place new pylons on gravel and build deck from there

Not sure what you mean by this to be honest. Are you planning on using preformed footings?

[sclitheroe]

I used these on a deck thats just about 2 feet above ground: http://www.deckplans.com/

They are concrete blocks that you slot 4x4's into to create the supports for the deck. The idea is that you don't worry about frost lines and heave, because the deck floats on the surface. You don't worry about the deck sinking, because you use enough of the blocks that the weight distribution is very low.

After two years, there is no discernable change in the gap between the deck and the house, and the deck hasn't settled or shifted at all.

Awesome product, imho.

-Scott

[Old Yeller]

Bit of a bump but I'm planning on building a deck this spring summer as well.

Mine is going to be attached to the house, about 18 feet long and 10 feet out from the house. It'll be less than 3 feet off the ground. I'm not exactly sure how to figure out where to put my post holes... I've read that the deck boards can overhang the support beam by 2 feet, so if I were to just measure out from my ledger by 8 feet would that be exact enough?

Also I'm looking around Home Depot's site for these post supports that I am Beast was talking about (digging in my area is NOT fun) and I can't find them... anybody know where they are on home depot's site?

[ken0042]

You will never find that on HD's site as they don't have any building materials.

Go to www.totem.ca and follow this chain after picking a store: GENERAL DEPARTMENTS > HARDWARE > BUILDERS HARDWARE > STRUCTURAL HARDWARE > POST SUPPORTS

However, I would not do that deck that way unless you want to rebuild it/ fix it/ pay out lawsuits every other year. There's a reason building code says piles 4 feet down; and not because they are "in" with the concrete industry.

[Tron_fdc]

Yeah, I think that according to the building code you have to have piles a minimum 3 feet deep that support a deck that is higher than 3 feet in height. If your deck is less than 3 feet tall you don't need piles (according to code) but I'd do them anyway. Mine is 2 feet high, and it has concrete pilings. Shaky decks suck, and they're a waste of money because you'll end up replacing it within a few years when it topples over.

I once built a deck that was 15 x 20 and about 10 feet off the ground. I used 4, 4x4 posts 4 feet deep that were concreted in. That deck will NEVER come down......I pity the fool who has to take it apart if the homeowner ever decides to change it. I even went with 2x6 joists that were 8" on center....you could drop a hot tub from 10 feet on that bad boy and it would still stand up.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Yeah, I think that according to the building code you have to have piles a minimum 3 feet deep that support a deck that is higher than 3 feet in height. If your deck is less than 3 feet tall you don't need piles (according to code) but I'd do them anyway.

Very close. It's piles 4 feet deep for a deck higher than 2 feet off the ground. 3 feet is the frost line in Calgary, so the extra foot is for good measure.

Just to add, if you can't get a Bobcat into your yard for whatever reason, looks at renting a 2 man auger, and bribe 3 strong friends with beer. (A 2 man auger works best with 4 guys.)