Of all the QC Defenders

[QCF]

Of all the QC Defenders this year, I would like to have everyones opinion on which player has played the most mistake free hockey throughout the year. In my opinion,whoever it is should be the most valuable defenceman. If you like you can do the same for the forwards.

[dobbles]

when i think about defenseman, i think palin and burke are my top picks. they are the guys i never think 'theres another awful breakout pass' or anything like that. burke has been more of a work in progress, but considering he started off with little ice time or responsibility, it wasn't like he got beat down early in the season. perhaps thats why they are the two d-men that are not minuses.
regarding forwards, i really like maki and especially cunning. they are guys that work hard, battle along the corner and wall, and play 60 minutes. cunning plays a physical game and does take some dumb penalties, but i like his intensity. i like maki on the fore check and cycling the puck. couture is also a lot like them.

[Hoody]

Have to agree with dobbles. Burke and Palin are the best d-men we have.

Hoody

[Tilley]

While Palin and Burke were the only defenders to have a positive +/-, from the games I've watched and listened to, they seem to be the best because they limit defensive mistakes and don't contribute offensively. They also happen to be the guys with the most pro experience in a very youthful blueline group.

Hambly - 24 - 3rd yr pro, spent time in ECHL
Ramholt - 23 - 2nd yr pro, lost a year of development in Switzerland
Pardy - 24 - 3rd yr pro, dramatic improvement in last two years
Palin - 23 - 3rd yr pro, defensive dman
Pelech - 20 - 1st yr pro, learning pro game
Baldwin - 21 - 1st yr pro, adjusting to pro game
Cole - 21 - 1st yr pro, adjusting to pro game
Burke - 25 - 3rd yr pro, spent time in ECHL

These are two guys aren't flashy, but stick with the simple plays that get the puck out of the zone. While that is great and necessary for the team to have success, their roles aren't to start the rush or contribute offensively. This is why their plus/minus numbers look as good as they are; they aren't required to jumpstart the offense, make the strong outlet pass or lead the rush. The other defenders with more than two years pro experience (Pardy, Hambly, and Ramholt) are asked to contribute offensively, helping an anemic offense score goals. This leaves them caught out of position as they pinch at the blueline or jump into the play as the trailer on the rush.

In a development league like the AHL it's more important to examine who is improving and can contribute in more ways and not necessarily who is making mistake free hockey. If Calgary were only concerned about limiting defensive mistakes they would sign NHL has beens like Chicago, Rockford, and Houston. Unfortunately for QC fans there was a lot of turnover in the d corps from last season which caused some growing pains. The positive aspect of this season is that these young guys will be back next year and will look like a completely different group due to this experience. The other positive aspect is that Calgary's defensive depth means that most of the group in the QC will be back rather than poaching the top dmen to supplement the big club.

[dlogint]

From my observations I must say Pardy has played extremely well and is the best d on this team. He has the skills and his decision making is fine. Playing with a broken foot shows character and grit. He should be on the top of any list for a call up next year.

Tilley: I can't disagree with you more. Palin and Burke for that matter aren't just "chip it off the glass" Dmen as you suggest. I agree with what was written in todays paper ( notwithstanding my view on Pardy):

"Top Blueliner: As difficult as it was to pick an MVP, it was that easy to tab this award. Brett Palin has taken a huge step in his professional career as a dependable defenseman. He has the most astounding statistic on the team with a plus/minus rating of +14. The rest of the QC defensive corps has a combined rating of -40, with only Gerry Burke in the plus category."


Burke has gotten a ton of ice time lately and has 2 or 3 assits in past several games. Compare this to being a healthy scratch earlier when he first came up. They are dressing 5 D now and Burke is seeing PP and PK time.


With respect to past "pro" experience I'd say an AHL rookie by any other measure is a "rookie" That is to say the leap up from the ECHL to the AHL is greater than, in my opinion, the leap from the AHL to the NHL.

[Tilley]

I would be curious as to how you would describe the play of Palin and Burke. Are they mobile, two-way dmen; offensive catalysts; defensive dmen? Having watched Palin for three years as a pro as well as time in junior; he really hasn't deviated from the style of game he plays and it would be difficult for me to describe him as anything more than a 'Warrener type' defensive dman. As I've said earlier, he's a valuable player on an AHL team as a depth dman; but a team using him as part of a first pairing is in serious trouble. He was a dependable dman for two seasons in Omaha, you knew exactly what you were going to get. That doesn't mean he was the best dman on the team though.

Perhaps Burke has seen increased powerplay and penalty killing time is due to the injury of Pardy, who has been viewed as the most likely call up candidate? Since he is the elder dman and has the most experience he would not be given more ice time over first year pros, particularly in an attempt at a playoff spot? Additionally, if the several points he has accumulated in the last several games is any indication of how he plays, why does he only have five points for the season? I'm not saying he hasn't improved over the course of the season, I just don't think having a positive plus/minus is a telling stat of his overall play and impact on the team.

I would disagree with your statement regarding the experience of rookies. A rookie coming out of junior has only played against boys, or at most 20 year olds. A player who has played ECHL hockey has played against men who have already developed strength, already learned the tricks of pro hockey and are far more prepared for the AHL. Talking with Sutter, McGill, and others in the organization, all have spoken about how the transition from AHL to NHL is the most difficult. I fail to see how it can be more difficult to make the AHL from the ECHL than AHL to NHL. Lots of players get a shot at the AHL. Many players who don't have a hope of every playing in the NHL get a chance to play in the AHL. Look at the number of players who are given ATO contracts for the AHL. The window to make a NHL team is so small that even if you are talented enough, you may not ever make it due to numerous aspects. A guy who has some talent can sign multiple ATOs in a season with numerous teams who are having injuries trouble, too little experience, or need a specific type of player as a stop gap until better options appear.

[dobbles]

tilley - regarding burke, i like his transition game. he might not be a high scoring d-man this season or ever, but i feel like he has good offensive instincts. whether that be coming out of his own zone on a breakout, or pinching at the right time in the offensive zone. he seems to know when to move down low with the play. he seems good with the puck through a clogged neutral zone.

with that said, i am not meaning to say he dominates play in all the zones. theres a reason he isn't a top prospect for calgary. his play, while even and fairly mistake free, is still just average. but i also think he has progressed a lot this year. early in the year he was rarely used. but even before the pardy injury, he was seeing a lot more ice time.


regarding palin, i honestly don't pay as much attention to him because he plays mistake free hockey. the problem in my opinion with guys like ramholtz and hambly is that while they might get more points and ice time, they also look really bad at times.

palin though rarely looks bad or out of place. i would assume he just has good awareness. also he plays a more physical game than several of the guys. he does seem to have more intangibles than most of the players this year like leadership and on-ice vision. whether or not thats enough to translate to a good nhl career, i don't know.

[Tilley]

Dobbles - I appreciate your thoughts on the two blueliners. There is a reson Burke isn't a prospect for the Flames though, let alone a top prospect. It's like you say, he's simply an average player. He's following in the footsteps of Steve Bancroft, Zenith Komarniski, Bradon Rogers, and Chris Lee as career minor leaguers who provide experience on the blueline while more talented prospects adapt to the pros.

I don't mean to sound like I dislike the way Palin plays. He has a role on the team and is very effective within it. I merely find it ironic that a bottom pairing guy is labeled the top dman more so for not screwing up rather than being a dominant defender. He's a career AHLer. This isn't a bad thing and I could very well see him as the captain of the team in a couple of years, but he just isn't skilled enough to ever warrant a promotion to the NHL.

Reiterating what I said in an earlier post, with the long term contracts of Phaneuf, Regehr, and Sarich and hopefully having Vandermeer and Giordano returning next season the likelihood of any of the current defensive roster being moved up is small unless injuries decimate the big club. The experience from this season will be a tremendous asset to the young dmen and many will look like completely different players.

[dobbles]

yeah, with palin having been around longer, i am assuming he has pretty much grown into what he is going to be. but i think burke might have more upside to him. i say tat just based on the progress he has made this year. though i also worry that maybe he doesn't have as much upside as he doesn't show 'flashes of brilliance.' but maybe he just isn't a flashy player. so for now i will assume he will continue to improve and be a top guy here or possibly a call up guy for calgary eventually. (who knows though, i am not a scout by any means)

[dlogint]

Tilley:
Usually it’s difficult to disagree that +/- is not a telling stat. However it is a statistic that jumps out when examining it on this team. There are presently only 3 players in the plus side. This seems to be a league where offense is mostly generated on the power play. Many times I’ve seen Palin. Pardy and Burke ( even handed) make a pass that led to a shot on goal after just one additional pass…pass up, pass over, shot on net. Out of the defensive end in a wink of an eye. However there was no finish. This was not the case when Burke first got here. It seemed most of his shift was in the defensive zone. That is far from the case now. The same with Pardy and Palin and Pelch too…they spend more time in the offensive zone because of their outlet passes, transition game and smart decision making. Burke was never drafted and it is curious as to what the future holds for him. I don’t see this organization just bringing in “older” players to fill in the gaps. And Burke wouldn’t fit that profile anyway. He was paired with Pelch for the most part until recently. That seemed to work to Pelch’s advantage. I think the organization is investing in ever player as part of Calgary’s development philosophy. Assuming someone like Burke was brought in to fill in the gaps caused by Cole’s and Baldwin’s inexperience he may be the “odd man out” next year. That is to say Pelch has improved a great deal and surely will see the NHL but I think he’ll benefit from another AHL year. He’ll be able to play with a less experienced player next year so that may allow the organization to go with a Baldwin if they chose. If one looks at Calgary’s prospects and assumes Calgary will stay with them over free agents, (Burke was never drafted or a prospect), than Baldwin, Cole and/or a new draftee may be on the way. I don’t see QC carrying 7 D especially when many games this year have had only 5 D dressed. A lot can happen but my guess for next year will be Ramholt, Pardy, Pelch, Palin, Hambly and Baldwin ( if there is younger blood to be “developed then Palin, Hambly and Cole are on the bubble) as all these players have been signed or drafted by Calgary. A possible exception and another interesting situation is Ramholt. Very skilled and certianly will see time in the NHL but it seems like his game is not compatible with the system in place. Don’t mean to be negative about any player, especially one so skilled as Ramholt but I would not be surprised if he might be somewhere else next year.

In a general observation about all the D being an able to be an offensive catalyst I’ll must say, without calling any forwards out, the D had their hands full playing defense because of a lack of defensive play by forwards…not being judgmental just making the observation. Another way of saying it was the entire team rarely was on the same page at the same time on the defensive aspect of the game. Also, when forwards are scoring regularly things opens up for the D to contribute offensively. You must appreciate how good the D, collectively has been and how much the entire team was challenged defensively because of the lack of scoring.