Charlton Heston dead at age 84.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

No, of course non-profit organizations have motives. Rarely however, does a non-profit have motives that involve the expansion of availability of fully automatic weaponry to the common man.

Heston might have been a great actor, but as stated previously in this thread, he has probably done more than any other human to put more guns out on the street. His hands are not clean when it comes to innocent bystanders being killed in gang shootouts. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to yours. Personally, spare me all the "rest in peace Charles" stuff. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

What a bunch of junk. Did Heston's finger pull the trigger? If you want to console yourself with that "opinion", be my guest.

[Johnny 99]

Yes, that's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. I'm not going to ridicule you for having a different one; you're entitled to it just as much as I am to mine. Try to be a little more respectful of others, thanks.

[4X4]

And McDonalds is responsible for America being obese, right? Die Ronald! Die!

[Johnny 99]

People choose to eat at McDonalds. Most people who are killed by gunfire do not choose to get shot. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that none of them do.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

People choose to eat at McDonalds. Most people who are killed by gunfire do not choose to get shot. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that none of them do.

Yeah, but people choose to buy a gun for criminal purposes and choose to pull the trigger.

[4X4]

People don't choose to get heart disease from greasy hamburgers... At least, I don't.

[Johnny 99]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yeah, but people choose to buy a gun for criminal purposes and choose to pull the trigger.

And who has done more than anyone else to ensure that handguns are readily available with less and less restrictions? Charles Heston and the NRA.

[Johnny 99]

Originally Posted by 4X4

People don't choose to get heart disease from greasy hamburgers... At least, I don't.

No, but you know that heart disease and bad health in general comes from eating McDonalds.....so it is a choice. Innocent children hit by stray bullets from gang violence is not a choice.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

And who has done more than anyone else to ensure that handguns are readily available with less and less restrictions? Charles Heston and the NRA.

Sorta like McDonalds with hamburgers.

[Johnny 99]

Yeah, you're totally right. I was wrong. Good luck engaging in intelligent discourse in the future.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

No, but you know that heart disease and bad health in general comes from eating McDonalds.....so it is a choice. Innocent children hit by stray bullets from gang violence is not a choice.

So who is at fault for innocent children being hit from stray bullets fired by gangsters? Chuck or gangsters? Sorry, dude... I vehemently disagree with your opinion. Where I come from, we are taught that having or owning a gun doesn't make you a child killer. If you kill a child, you are a child killer.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

Yeah, you're totally right. I was wrong. Good luck engaging in intelligent discourse in the future.

Hey, if you want to talk about it, I'm listening. I just think that you're blaming Heston for the gun problem in America. The NRA preaches responsible gun ownership, not gangsterism. Anything can become a weapon that kills. Guns, knives (hey! Cut a vegetable lately?), hamburgers...

Edit to add that I don't even own A gun, let alone the many guns that would necessitate a gun rack.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

People choose to eat at McDonalds. Most people who are killed by gunfire do not choose to get shot. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that none of them do.

No, but the people pulling the trigger chose to do so. Just like people chose to eat at McDonalds.

People don't chose to get killed in car accidents either....should we start banning cars too?

According to your theory, we should.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

Yeah, you're totally right. I was wrong. Good luck engaging in intelligent discourse in the future.

Typical.

Your point holds absolutely no water.

Now, if you would argue that access to guns is far to easy(anyone being able to walk in and purchase one)....you might have a point.

Or even if one would have to hold a permit that would show you went through a proper training course, to ensure that no 'accidental' deaths happen while in the vicinity of firearms. Because really, there is no way you're going to stop 'gangs' from gaining access to firearms to fight their 'wars.' They'll import them from Mexico if they have too.

But hey, lets start a 'war on guns'.....waste another few trillion, just like the US already does with the 'war on drugs.'

To blame 'guns' for an innocent bystander being shot? Or worse yet, Heston, for advocating the 2nd amendment be upheld? I don't think so. Blame whoever pulls the trigger, because for every criminal who has a gun, there are 20 more law-abiding citizens who own them and none of them have ever used them to kill someone.

[4X4]

And by 20, he means 20,000

[Azure]

Originally Posted by 4X4

And by 20, he means 20,000

Probably, considering around 100 million people in the US alone own guns.

You can't 'ban' guns.....no 'law' is suddenly going to cut down on gun crime. Just like no 'law' is suddenly going to stop people from using drugs. Nor is starting a 'war on drugs'....going to get 'rid' of the drugs.

Guns aren't 'evil' or 'bad'....or the 'reason' people get killed.

Charlton Heston is not responsible for 'any' gang-related murders, nor is he responsible for the shooting at Columbine High. Just like Rammstein isn't responsible for driving those two maniacs to kill all those innocent students.

There is a problem with 'easy' access to guns in the United States, and that was show-cased by the shooting at Virginia Tech where the killer was able to purchase a handgun despite having some sort of record. THAT is a problem that could be fixed.

But to ban guns, or blame Heston, for gun-related killings? Ridiculous.

Heston stood for Civil Rights during a time where his opinion wasn't very well received. MLK was 'murdered' for what he did, yet Heston stood by him and the whole Civil Rights movement the whole time.

To me, a truly great man.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

No, of course non-profit organizations have motives. Rarely however, does a non-profit have motives that involve the expansion of availability of fully automatic weaponry to the common man.

Heston might have been a great actor, but as stated previously in this thread, he has probably done more than any other human to put more guns out on the street. His hands are not clean when it comes to innocent bystanders being killed in gang shootouts. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to yours. Personally, spare me all the "rest in peace Charles" stuff. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Wow, you clearly have no understanding about the NRA and what they do for one. The NRA doesn't sell guns, they lobby for the protection of 2nd amendment rights. They are advocates for firearm training and the safe use of them.

I'm pretty sure that gangsters and drug dealers don't have the time to fill out their NRA membership.

Your opinion about Heston is wrong and uninformed. Please show me any proof that Heston or the NRA has anything to do with gangsters buying illegal firearms and using them. Please show me where Heston has advocated arming criminals or increasing the circulation of these weapons to criminals.

The old saying is guns don't kill people, people kill people and thats true. And no change of the law is going to prevent criminals from getting and using guns if they choose to use them.

I've never seen a gun shooting a person without someone squeezing the trigger.

And way to ignore Heston's history of civil rights work.

[Johnny 99]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow, you clearly have no understanding about the NRA and what they do for one. The NRA doesn't sell guns, they lobby for the protection of 2nd amendment rights. They are advocates for firearm training and the safe use of them.

I'm pretty sure that gangsters and drug dealers don't have the time to fill out their NRA membership.

Your opinion about Heston is wrong and uninformed. Please show me any proof that Heston or the NRA has anything to do with gangsters buying illegal firearms and using them. Please show me where Heston has advocated arming criminals or increasing the circulation of these weapons to criminals.

The old saying is guns don't kill people, people kill people and thats true. And no change of the law is going to prevent criminals from getting and using guns if they choose to use them.

I've never seen a gun shooting a person without someone squeezing the trigger.

And way to ignore Heston's history of civil rights work.

Wow, are you ever naive. The NRA is propped up and backed by large firearm producers. If you don't believe that then you need to learn alot about how the world works. If the cigarette industry could get away with it, they'd form their own NRA-type group to combat smoking bylaws. Before you start lecturing me on the second amendment to the US constitution, you should examine what it actually says and why it was implemented in the first place. The right to bear arms was put into law to ensure that citizens would have the ability to rise up against a corrupt totalitarian government, in the even that one should ever come into being. Nothing was ever mentioned about having fully automatic weapons in the hands of children.

[Johnny 99]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow, you clearly have no understanding about the NRA and what they do for one. The NRA doesn't sell guns, they lobby for the protection of 2nd amendment rights. They are advocates for firearm training and the safe use of them.

I'm pretty sure that gangsters and drug dealers don't have the time to fill out their NRA membership.

Your opinion about Heston is wrong and uninformed. Please show me any proof that Heston or the NRA has anything to do with gangsters buying illegal firearms and using them. Please show me where Heston has advocated arming criminals or increasing the circulation of these weapons to criminals.

The old saying is guns don't kill people, people kill people and thats true. And no change of the law is going to prevent criminals from getting and using guns if they choose to use them.

I've never seen a gun shooting a person without someone squeezing the trigger.

And way to ignore Heston's history of civil rights work.

How can one's opinion be "wrong"? However uninformed you may feel I may be on this subject, it is incorrect to characterize any opinion as "wrong". That shows how little you know about debating, and in the broader sense, the English language. Personally I do not agree with your opinion, but I do my best to both understand and respect it, and not dismiss it out of hand. Whilst you are certainly entitled to believe whatever you want, is it not true that most modern, first-world countries have banned handguns? Yourself or someone else of a similar opinion argued elsewhere in this thread that "you can't ban guns, gangsters will just import them from Mexico". Why then do we not have a major problem with guns here in Canada? Or in any European country? Or in China? Or Australia? I think you get my point. Charles Heston did more than anyone else to encourage the distribution of firearms at the behest of the gun industry. While he too was certainly entitled to his opinion, in my opinion, he contributed very much to the death and maiming of many people who were law-abiding citizens, including gun owners themselves.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

Wow, are you ever naive. The NRA is propped up and backed by large firearm producers. If you don't believe that then you need to learn alot about how the world works. If the cigarette industry could get away with it, they'd form their own NRA-type group to combat smoking bylaws. Before you start lecturing me on the second amendment to the US constitution, you should examine what it actually says and why it was implemented in the first place. The right to bear arms was put into law to ensure that citizens would have the ability to rise up against a corrupt totalitarian government, in the even that one should ever come into being. Nothing was ever mentioned about having fully automatic weapons in the hands of children.

I don't like this comparison. You can't smoke a cigarette for fun like you can shoot a gun for target practice. And whether you advocate "gun fun" or not is beside the point. Properly used, guns are harmless tools, like knives and baseball bats. Cigarettes kill every time. They're not the same thing. BTW, go right ahead and hack my hamburger comparison.

You're really just (excuse the pun) shooting the messenger. Dissing Heston and/or the NRA is like blaming NASCAR for car accidents. Or alcohol and liquor stores for drunken a-holes.