Charlton Heston dead at age 84.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To me its sad that the last true memory that a lot of people have is Heston being humiliated through the actions of Michael Moore a man who treats the truth like a pinball machine.

What a terrible way to start a day, remembering what a lying loser Moore is.
I think I have Ben Hur on VHS somewhere. Maybe I'll find a few minutes to watch that epic chariot race.
Ciao, Chuck. Indeed, Rome will be hilarious tomorrow.

[Azure]

RIP.

[Stranger]

Originally Posted by 4X4

What a terrible way to start a day, remembering what a lying loser Moore is.
I think I have Ben Hur on VHS somewhere. Maybe I'll find a few minutes to watch that epic chariot race.
Ciao, Chuck. Indeed, Rome will be hilarious tomorrow.

I agree with Captain Crunch and 4X4. Moore tarnished all the good Heston did while he was young.

[Wookie]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Congratulations in buying into Moore's BS. Embarrassing!

Easy, was't the quoted poster asking "was this true"

[fatso]

Ya, this is sad.

I will always have a fond spot for his great classic films... particularly 'Ben Hur' and the wonderful 'Ten Commandments'. He did such a great job in both.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Awesome.

[Buzzard]

[quote=HOZ;1266915]Congratulations in buying into Moore's BS. Embarrassing! [/quote

Wasn't exactly buying into it..more like questioning it.

[Sainters7]

I was just watching Ten Commandments last weekend.

RIP Heston. He was the real-life Calculon.

[flip]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

I'm not a fan of his position on guns, but I still think Michael Moore embarassed him badly in Bowling for Columbine. Picking on a senior citizen on the verge of dementia, especially with creative editing, isn't cool.

I don't think he was very 'out of it' in that interview with Michael Moore. And being a senior doesn't and shouldn't make him immune to questioning. I do think it was rude how he approached him, especially in his own home, very tasteless and uncomfortable to watch. On the other hand, Is it true that he would go to a town after a child was killed by gunfire to promote guns? I just find it hard to believe that anyone could really do that. Is there any proof of this anywhere? If so, I'd sure like to read it. I didn't agree with his politics either, but he was a great actor in his time. As far as today's standards he was an overactor, but so were alot of actors back then, like Kirk Douglas, Carey Grant, I think it was just the method of acting back then. I think the women actors were even worse. Just watch Gone With the Wind for cheeseball overacting at its best.

It is sort of true. Essentially the NRA despite public pressure not to, held a meeting/rally (or whatever) in Denver (or whatever the little burb Columbine High is in) shortly after the Columbine shootings. It was a pretty douchy move on Heston and the rest of the NRA, but from their point of view they wanted to establish that this wasn't guns fault it was the fault of the killers/their parents etc.

Originally Posted by HOZ

Congratulations in buying into Moore's BS. Embarrassing!

Wait did you even read the post?


And the Ten Commandmants is and has been my fav movie of all time since I was about 6. So let it be written, so let it be done!!!

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by flip

It is sort of true. Essentially the NRA despite public pressure not to, held a meeting/rally (or whatever) in Denver (or whatever the little burb Columbine High is in) shortly after the Columbine shootings. It was a pretty douchy move on Heston and the rest of the NRA, but from their point of view they wanted to establish that this wasn't guns fault it was the fault of the killers/their parents etc.

Patently false.

The annual NRA meeting was booked well before the Columbine shootings. Annual meetings can be logistical nightmares and are often booked/planned 18 months ahead of time. The NRA didn't go "There was a shooting near Denver a couple months ago so lets go there next month for our annual meeting."

I suggest a google search on Bowling for Columbine debunked.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Stranger

. Moore tarnished all the good Heston did while he was young.

I kinda think Charlton Heston tarnished Charlton Heston:

He turned a legitimate 'sporting' organization into a right-wing lobby group, expressed no sentiment of apology when holding a major NRA rally in Denver days after the Columbine shooting, and has probably done more than anyone ever to contribute to the number of guns on the streets of the US - somewhere north of 200 million right now.

My sympathies to his family, but the guy's politics are whacked and he deserved what he got from Moore.

[Itse]

Yeah, Michael Moore should burn for the BS picture of Charlton Heston he created in Bowling for Columbine. He was fine man who spoke for civil liberties and freedom of speech for everyone; not just for the NRA WASP:s or just for leftwing artists. Everyone. He was also a white old rich man, so if some of his opinions weren't exactly cutting edge liberal anymore, well, I think it's understandable.

Btw, he was also a pro-gun control spokesman in the sixties and a vocal supporter of Martin Luther King Jr. He was not a gun-nut, and definitely not a racist.

And to think that the NRA would move their annual convention for something like a single shooting is just ridiculous. Bad things happen all the time, to move a convention of 50 000+ people around every time something like that happened would be ridiculous. And if I recall correctly, they didn't really hold it THAT close to the shooting mentioned, whether you look at the dates or the distance.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Patently false.

The annual NRA meeting was booked well before the Columbine shootings. Annual meetings can be logistical nightmares and are often booked/planned 18 months ahead of time. The NRA didn't go "There was a shooting near Denver a couple months ago so lets go there next month for our annual meeting."

I suggest a google search on Bowling for Columbine debunked.

I don't remember saying anywhere in my post that it wasn't already scheduled to be there. Just that it was still douchy to not cancel it.

[transplant99]

He turned a legitimate 'sporting' organization into a right-wing lobby group, expressed no sentiment of apology when holding a major NRA rally in Denver days after the Columbine shooting,

It was two weeks...and because of that very reason there was no time to move it.

And he had no sentiment of apology for not moving it? He COULDNT...jeez.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by driveway

I kinda think Charlton Heston tarnished Charlton Heston:

He turned a legitimate 'sporting' organization into a right-wing lobby group, expressed no sentiment of apology when holding a major NRA rally in Denver days after the Columbine shooting, and has probably done more than anyone ever to contribute to the number of guns on the streets of the US - somewhere north of 200 million right now.

My sympathies to his family, but the guy's politics are whacked and he deserved what he got from Moore.

You um do know that the NRA rally in Denver was not a Rally but their annual meeting, and that the NRA is a non profit organization. The NRA is also a New York based organization and the statutes in New York don't allow you to cancel the time or place of the meeting without at least 10 days notice. The shootings happened 11 days before the meeting, and there were already 4 million members nationwide that would have had to have been informed. Logistics and the law prevented the cancellation of the NRA annual meeting. Also the NRA scaled back the rally, maintaining only what was legally required.

The speech that Moore showed in all of his outrage (cold dead hands) with Heston holding a handmade musket was a clever bit of editing by Moore as the speech was not made at that meeting 11 days after Columbine, but one year later in Charlotte North Carolina after Heston was given the gift of that musket. It was a statement of gratitude for receiving the rifle, not a statement of defiance over gun control debates.

Moore did his best to put Heston in the worst possible light.

The speech that Moore showed where Heston showed defiance to the mayer who requested that the NRA not hold their meeting was an edited piece where Moore took 7 lines from 5 different speeches and another pieces from a different speech all together and sewed them together.

There is very little truth in Moore's treatment of Heston, but there sure is a lot of deception and clever editing.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Itse

Yeah, Michael Moore should burn for the BS picture of Charlton Heston he created in Bowling for Columbine. He was fine man who spoke for civil liberties and freedom of speech for everyone; not just for the NRA WASP:s or just for leftwing artists. Everyone. He was also a white old rich man, so if some of his opinions weren't exactly cutting edge liberal anymore, well, I think it's understandable.

Btw, he was also a pro-gun control spokesman in the sixties and a vocal supporter of Martin Luther King Jr. He was not a gun-nut, and definitely not a racist.

And to think that the NRA would move their annual convention for something like a single shooting is just ridiculous. Bad things happen all the time, to move a convention of 50 000+ people around every time something like that happened would be ridiculous. And if I recall correctly, they didn't really hold it THAT close to the shooting mentioned, whether you look at the dates or the distance.

Great post.

A lot of people are overlooking the fact that he DID stand for civil liberties...and marched right alongside MLK.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by flip

I don't remember saying anywhere in my post that it wasn't already scheduled to be there. Just that it was still douchy to not cancel it.

This kind of statement reeks of monday morning quarterback. Thanks for that, flip. Please read CC's and Itse's posts before posting in this thread again.

[Johnny 99]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You um do know that the NRA rally in Denver was not a Rally but their annual meeting, and that the NRA is a non profit organization. The NRA is also a New York based organization and the statutes in New York don't allow you to cancel the time or place of the meeting without at least 10 days notice. The shootings happened 11 days before the meeting, and there were already 4 million members nationwide that would have had to have been informed. Logistics and the law prevented the cancellation of the NRA annual meeting. Also the NRA scaled back the rally, maintaining only what was legally required.

The speech that Moore showed in all of his outrage (cold dead hands) with Heston holding a handmade musket was a clever bit of editing by Moore as the speech was not made at that meeting 11 days after Columbine, but one year later in Charlotte North Carolina after Heston was given the gift of that musket. It was a statement of gratitude for receiving the rifle, not a statement of defiance over gun control debates.

Moore did his best to put Heston in the worst possible light.

The speech that Moore showed where Heston showed defiance to the mayer who requested that the NRA not hold their meeting was an edited piece where Moore took 7 lines from 5 different speeches and another pieces from a different speech all together and sewed them together.

There is very little truth in Moore's treatment of Heston, but there sure is a lot of deception and clever editing.

Hardly. They form perhaps the most powerful lobby group of all private organizations. They contribute more money to political campaigns than any other private organization, and they are right up there with the war industry and the oil industry in terms of political contributions. Whether or not they are officially termed a "non-profit" organization is beside the point; the Calgary Stampede is also a "non-profit" organization. A "non-profit" organization who have forced the compulsory purchase of many neighbourhood homes around the Stampede grounds so that they can build a mall there.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

Hardly. They form perhaps the most powerful lobby group of all private organizations. They contribute more money to political campaigns than any other private organization, and they are right up there with the war industry and the oil industry in terms of political contributions. Whether or not they are officially termed a "non-profit" organization is beside the point; the Calgary Stampede is also a "non-profit" organization. A "non-profit" organization who have forced the compulsory purchase of many neighbourhood homes around the Stampede grounds so that they can build a mall there.

So... What are you saying? That non-profit organizations cannot have motives? Tell that to your priest.

[Johnny 99]

No, of course non-profit organizations have motives. Rarely however, does a non-profit have motives that involve the expansion of availability of fully automatic weaponry to the common man.

Heston might have been a great actor, but as stated previously in this thread, he has probably done more than any other human to put more guns out on the street. His hands are not clean when it comes to innocent bystanders being killed in gang shootouts. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to yours. Personally, spare me all the "rest in peace Charles" stuff. Good riddance to bad rubbish.