The crazy christians are up to it again!

[Flames89]

Jebus [sic] Christ!!!

[MolsonInBothHands]

Well that made me want to go buy and read the book. I wonder if the was the result the archbishop was looking for. The archbiship does understand the meaning of fiction vs. non-fiction right?

[Looger]

jeez, good thing this cardinal didn't read brown's earlier work, "angels and demons" - it intimates that the catholic church (gasp) made some violent overreactions in the past that led to learned citizens (including galileo) creating a far-reaching criminal underground network in response.

the 'crazy christians' are ALWAYS up to something.

i find it interesting how many hate-mongers point to inflammatory statements by islamic or jewish leaders in arab and israeli media respectively, when there's PLENTY of ugly things said by mainstream christian leaders all over north america.

"don't read this book, it's bad"

that'll just increase sales!

moron.

oh and Flames89,

love the ashatar

[photon]

I dunno, I've had a few people come up to me asking if I'd read it and try to tell me how everything in it is true.

People are stupid. You could put a big sticker on the front of the book saying "This is FICTION" and it wouldn't help.

[Looger]

Originally posted by MolsonInBothHands@Mar 16 2005, 08:23 PM
Well that made me want to go buy and read the book. I wonder if the was the result the archbishop was looking for. The archbiship does understand the meaning of fiction vs. non-fiction right?

...

<insert sarcastic bible comment here>

...

[I-Hate-Hulse]

This quote had a touch of irony:

“This book is a sack full of lies against the Church, against the real history of Christianity and against Christ himself,” said Bertone, archbishop of northern Genoa.

Catholics consider themselves Christians but Christians don't consider Catholics to be Christian.

One big happy family

[Looger]

yeah, that'll happen when whole books are deleted from the bible.

aren't there like two extra books in the masonic bible, by tradition the presidential swearing-in one?

[RougeUnderoos]

In typical fashion, a religious leader is keeping up with the times. There is already a cottage industry that deals with nothing but debunking Brown's novel but don't let that slow you down Cardinal.

Next week: Cardinal Bertone tells us his views on the Rubiks Cube!

[Agamemnon]

Its funny, I just read The Davinci Code, and I don't seem to see the part where he claims that this is a work of non-fiction. One would think it obvious, considering the entire work covers a period of less than 24 hours, and is narrated more or less like any novel anywhere.

That said, works of fiction contain truths. If gravity exists in the book, did the author 'make it up', or does gravity also exist in real life? Because its in a work of fiction, could gravity be debunked? Clearly not. Just as some of the points and facts Brown uses are not made up.

I think the main issue is not whether the facts are legit or not, its how he draws them altogether to paint the church with an ugly brush. There are probably additional facts that could be brought to bear to combat these claims, but I doubt they could disprove them.

The most interesting part is where he points out the Council of Nicea (I think?) in the 4th century where Constantine and the Bishops get together to settle on the final version of the Bible. Surely God must have had some direct intervention there, otherwise... we're reading Constantine's bible, not Jesus'.

[Cowperson]

For a brief moment in time in the mid-80's, I dated a very, very Catholic girl and she was telling me at the time the word had come down from higher up that no one was supposed to watch The Thorn Birds, the de rigeur mini-series of the time.

It just made most of them clamour for space in front of the TV.

Cowperson

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Mar 16 2005, 09:20 PM
For a brief moment in time in the mid-80's, I dated a very, very Catholic girl and she was telling me at the time the word had come down from higher up that no one was supposed to watch The Thorn Birds, the de rigeur mini-series of the time.

It just made most of them clamour for space in front of the TV.

Cowperson

Yeah, dating ultra-Christian chicks can be tiring.

I once turned to mine (after performing un-Christian-like acts) and asked her, point-blank, if all Hindus are going to Hell. She didnt' even think about it, of course they were.

I asked her how she could be so sure that she was right and they were wrong, out of all the thousands of faiths in the world. Her answer; one of them has to be right... and she picked it.

I hate getting into arguments like that, and I'm never 100% certain which one of us is right, and which needs to be interned in an asylum. I hope its her.

[Daradon]

All of those theories (and examples of them) have been out there for a long time, it just took an author to make it entertaining and easy to read to bring it to a wide audience.

The problem with the wider audience is that, as people have pointed out, they don't discern against fact and fiction, or truth and theory as well as people who might have spent a lot of time researching the subject and not reading one book of fiction.

That said, there is much in the book which is based on truth, fact, and or sensible conclusions.

And some of the finger pointing it does (like the role of women in the church) has been talked about, even decryed for years.

For me this article just proves one thing. Religion DOES like to tell you what to think. And they don't want you to read, research, or think for yourself.

Religion is control. And the easiest way to control people, is to get in their head and control the stories they know, the things they believe in, and the morals they should live by.

[CaramonLS]

Wow because the author wrote about the Holy Grail being Documents about Mary Magdaline, this causes the Bishop to be outraged?

Maybe the Church should worry about all the priests who like to sexually assault little boys. Get that cleared up and that stereotype out of the way before you start crying about works of FICTION.

[Buff]

He did go about it the wrong way, but he has somewhat of a point.

The book has caused people who were struggling with their faith to give up on their faith. Yes it is fiction, but it helps to create a lot of questions. My wife read the book and caught herself wondering a couple of times if what we believe is true. Then she realized what she was thinking, but some people don't who don't have a strong enough faith and/or knowledge can come away questioning their faith after reading this book.

Once I'm done reading the New Jedi Order series I'll give this book a whirl to see for myself all the hoopla about it.

[Looger]

Originally posted by Buff@Mar 17 2005, 05:41 AM
He did go about it the wrong way, but he has somewhat of a point.

The book has caused people who were struggling with their faith to give up on their faith. Yes it is fiction, but it helps to create a lot of questions. My wife read the book and caught herself wondering a couple of times if what we believe is true. Then she realized what she was thinking, but some people don't who don't have a strong enough faith and/or knowledge can come away questioning their faith after reading this book.

Once I'm done reading the New Jedi Order series I'll give this book a whirl to see for myself all the hoopla about it.

this is a bad thing?

if a fictional work can make people question their faith, in an institution that has cut the original scripture as much as the vatican has, then what were people basing their faith on?

the completeness of the king james version of the bible?

faith should not be on the human element, which is somewhat compromised. faith for christians - is a little different than most religions, by definition all christians believe that christ died for their sins on the cross.

any serious look at history will see some monkeying around by the catholics, and, well, every other religious institution, ever.

[kermitology]

It's an old saying that history is written by the people who win the battles.. To say that Christianity and the bible has been around in it's precise form, without change, and without the truth being masked is rediculous. If you're looking at a religous war and you happen to have the stronger side as Christianity, the fact is that any other interpretations of the bible or an opposing faith would be crushed, and the truth may or may not be lost.

I find it hard to understand why there is a need for some people to believe something created by man so absolutely. I'll admit, for the most part, I do not have any faith, but I don't think that people who do have faith are crazy or wrong. It's their choice to believe that kind of thing, and I applaud them for it, I do think that absolute beliving in every word of gospel is a little far fetched. It's all interpretation..

[Daradon]

Originally posted by kermitology@Mar 16 2005, 11:59 PM
It's an old saying that history is written by the people who win the battles.. To say that Christianity and the bible has been around in it's precise form, without change, and without the truth being masked is rediculous. If you're looking at a religous war and you happen to have the stronger side as Christianity, the fact is that any other interpretations of the bible or an opposing faith would be crushed, and the truth may or may not be lost.

I find it hard to understand why there is a need for some people to believe something created by man so absolutely. I'll admit, for the most part, I do not have any faith, but I don't think that people who do have faith are crazy or wrong. It's their choice to believe that kind of thing, and I applaud them for it, I do think that absolute beliving in every word of gospel is a little far fetched. It's all interpretation..

Exactly Kermitology...

When Christanity is become stale and boring by our current market and commercial practises (the lesser of two evils?) it will be rewritten again.

But faith SHOULD be free thinking. You should be able to build and rework your own faith. Faith comes down to the person. As long as you are not breaking fundamental rules all religions share, 'no killing, no raping, no harming, no judging', all are really the same.

Religion, faith, and really what it comes down to... SPIRITUALITY is a personal experience.

I am glad to be part of a religion that has always been progressive in the fact that it allows scientific reasearch, discovery of one owns self in the religion, theorires into the religion and malebility of the religion based on ones own beliefs. No 'rules', just morals.

No it's not the Church of Scientology. It's an actual faith born many MANY years before Christianity. And the fact taha it was progressive and scientific even before all of that shows something.

True spirtuality allows one to grow, foesn't tell one how to think.

[Hack&Lube]

Don't lump us with the Catholics :P
But yeah, I could go hours debunking all the "proof" that Christian "scholars" rely upon. Yet, I can't quite give it up my faith. Again, it's personal.

Faith by definition is belief without proof. Whether that is stupidity or brilliance, I can't be the judge of.

As for the argument about the biblical text arriving here in basically it's precise form, that actually has merit because of the dead sea scrolls which were a bunch of scrolls found preserved in a cave in the 1940s. They were carbon dated to biblical times and compared with modern scripts, they are very much the same.

But any non-believer can just say that a fairy-tale copied verbatim and reliably millions of times is still a fairy-tale.

[Daradon]

Originally posted by Hack&Lube@Mar 17 2005, 05:25 AM
As for the argument about the biblical text arriving here in basically it's precise form, that actually has merit because of the dead sea scrolls which were a bunch of scrolls found preserved in a cave in the 1940s. They were carbon dated to biblical times and compared with modern scripts, they are very much the same.

I know what the Dead Sea Scrolls are and your definition of them seems to be a bit of a leap. Would you care to show examples of siginificant Biblical events that are similar between them and 'established' books in the 'good book'? Or are we just to take your word?

[Abstract]

I'm a Catholic and i read the book and thought it was entertaining story but nothing more. I do think its perhaps told in a way that easily swayed people may believe it to be the truth from start to finish but people will think that about any book.