Blue Jays Official Offseason 2007-2008 Threa

[flambers]

Here is a decent link....its the blog from Jeff Blair.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/baseball

"Busy day, what with Reed Johnson getting released after losing his battle with Shannon Stewart. It's no surprise, really, since from Day 1 general manager J.P. Ricciardi has hammered home the idea that he wants to go north with the deepest OFFENSIVE lineup possible.

Johnson was auditioning to be a fourth outfielder - not a fourth line winger on an NHL team - so stow all that nonsense about grit. Stewart's as capable as Johnson of getting hit by a pitch.

Left field won't be a strict platoon and the Blue Jays believe that although both Stewart and Johnson are right-handed hitters, Johnson's loftier career average against righties (.298 compared to .267) makes him a more useful player. Defence would be an issue in right or centre field - not in left. If you're counting on your left-fielder to throw people out, you're in big, big trouble - you're pitchers are getting racked around.

The deal also saves the Blue Jays some coin, since Johnson was due to earn $3.275 million this year and Stewart will make $1.5 million with a $250,000 bonus for 400 plate appearances."

[Sylvanfan]

I don't know what to think here about this move. When healthy Reed was good enough for hitting, getting on base, and producing runs and his defence was really good. Stewart, probably a better track record as a hitter and has a lot of experience as a lead off guy, but is a huge down grade in terms of defence. More of the same J.P. Ricciardi one step forward, one step back approach.

[AaronSJ]

Defence would be an issue in right or centre field - not in left. If you're counting on your left-fielder to throw people out, you're in big, big trouble - you're pitchers are getting racked around.

I disagree with this -- Stewart has one of the worst outfield arms in baseball, and this is a well known fact among players and third-base coaches. People run on him, especially rounding third base....

The deal also saves the Blue Jays some coin, since Johnson was due to earn $3.275 million this year and Stewart will make $1.5 million with a $250,000 bonus for 400 plate appearances."

The Jays owe Johnson ~$575k as a buyout... which is a bit of a waste since they could have just non-tendered him in the off-season (although Stewart wasn't signed at that time). So they'll save about a $1 million with Stewart... which may or may not be enough to justify the decision. Both players had health issues last season, so perhaps it's a case of going with the "perceived healthier" of the two.

With any luck, Adam Lind will make this an insignificant decision in the near future anyway...

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by flambers

Left field won't be a strict platoon and the Blue Jays believe that although both Stewart and Johnson are right-handed hitters, Johnson's loftier career average against righties (.298 compared to .267) makes him a more useful player.

It should be a strict platoon. Matt Stairs was the most productive LF in the AL last season. Yep, better numbers than Manny, Matsui and Crawford. Just to name a few.

Will he do it again? Probably not. But he WILL have better numbers vs. RHP than Stewart will and should be put in that position as much as possible.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

After being included in trade talks to the Giants during the off-season, it looks like Alex Rios is going to be a Blue Jay for a long time.

According to Foxsports.com, the All-Star right fielder is close to signing a six-year contract extension for around $65 million.

The contract also reportedly includes an option for 2015 that could move the total value of the deal closer to $80 million.

Rios will make $4.835 million this season, and his extension would start in 2009.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=232798&hubname=

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=232798&hubname=

I like this deal a lot. Good to know he's wanted by the Jays. Hopefully Riccardi won't go out and deal him for a struggling pitcher again...ahem, Linecum.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by fleury

I like this deal a lot. Good to know he's wanted by the Jays. Hopefully Riccardi won't go out and deal him for a struggling pitcher again...ahem, Linecum.

I like this deal allot Rios is a solid player without question, but I bet Linecum is a future #1 guy in the rotation. I would of loved to land that guy but to trade away Rios is a big price.

[CaramonLS]

Rios as a RF the next 2 years = mediocre deal. Rios as a CF for the next 4 after that = Good deal.

Only serves to drive home the idiocy of the Wells deal. He wont even come close to being a top 5 MLB player like he is being paid to do, all the more tragic that the last 5 years of that deal will in all likelihood be spent at the freaking corner.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Rios as a RF the next 2 years = mediocre deal. Rios as a CF for the next 4 after that = Good deal.

Only serves to drive home the idiocy of the Wells deal. He wont even come close to being a top 5 MLB player like he is being paid to do, all the more tragic that the last 5 years of that deal will in all likelihood be spent at the freaking corner.

the whole purpose of the wells deal was to let everybody know that they were willing to throw big $$$$ at people to keep them in TO. dumb, yes, but if there's one thing that has been proven in the MLB over the years it is that some team is always willing to take all or part of a fat contract for a decent player. so who knows. no doubt, not the best deal in history!

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

the whole purpose of the wells deal was to let everybody know that they were willing to throw big $$$$ at people to keep them in TO. dumb, yes, but if there's one thing that has been proven in the MLB over the years it is that some team is always willing to take all or part of a fat contract for a decent player. so who knows. no doubt, not the best deal in history!

Not that kind of money. Unprecedented for a player of his calibre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...seball_players

Only 16 MLB contracts have been handed out over 100 million in total. As far as production/consistency WHEN those contracts were handed out, Vernon Wells is far and away the LEAST deserving player of the bunch.

[Machiavelli]

Got a text that the Cubs have come to terms with Reed Johnson.

Our loss (giveaway?) is their gain.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Not that kind of money. Unprecedented for a player of his calibre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...seball_players

Only 16 MLB contracts have been handed out over 100 million in total. As far as production/consistency WHEN those contracts were handed out, Vernon Wells is far and away the LEAST deserving player of the bunch.

i didn't say he deserved it. he benefitted from the time, situation and circumstance.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Not that kind of money. Unprecedented for a player of his calibre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...seball_players

Only 16 MLB contracts have been handed out over 100 million in total. As far as production/consistency WHEN those contracts were handed out, Vernon Wells is far and away the LEAST deserving player of the bunch.

How do you figure? For example Todd Helton (#5 on the list) or Jason Giambi.... If I had to pick Wells over either of them I would pick Wells any day....

Wells is an under rated player by many. IMO when healthy he is one of the best CF in the game.....

As for his contract, sure it could be on the high side but the key message is the Jays are willing and are able to keep their star players......

Something lots of other teams can not accomplish....

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Got a text that the Cubs have come to terms with Reed Johnson.

Our loss (giveaway?) is their gain.

The Cubs were apparently looking hard at making a trade for Texas OF Marlon Byrd before Reed became available. I guess Byrd will remain a Ranger for now.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

1 year, 1.3 million deal for Johnson.

In Chicago, Johnson will be reunited with former Blue Jay Ted Lilly along with Ryan Dempster, a Gibsons, B.C., native and his workout partner when they shared a trainer as minor leaguers.

As for the goatee, ''If things are going well, it's going to stay. If things go south, you'll see some facial hair changes throughout the year.''

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=232816&hubname=


Hope he does really well. Always enjoyed watching him hustle out there.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

1 year, 1.3 million deal for Johnson.



http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=232816&hubname=


Hope he does really well. Always enjoyed watching him hustle out there.

didn't take long, 1.3 mil, pretty solid payday for being available for like a day.

definitely agree, he always put out for the team.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by flambers

How do you figure? For example Todd Helton (#5 on the list) or Jason Giambi.... If I had to pick Wells over either of them I would pick Wells any day....

Wells is an under rated player by many. IMO when healthy he is one of the best CF in the game.....

As for his contract, sure it could be on the high side but the key message is the Jays are willing and are able to keep their star players......

Something lots of other teams can not accomplish....

Not the issue. Notice how I prefaced my statement by saying 'when' the contracts were issued.

Giambi's last 2 years in Oakland (a pitcher's park).

2000 - .333/.476/.647 for a 1.123 OPS
2001 - .342/.477/.660 for a 1.137 OPS

This included winning the 2000 MVP and coming in 2nd for it in 01. He was the most productive player in baseball for 2 years. If those numbers were actually legitimate (aka not from Steroids) he'd be worth that contract in spades. Vernon Wells, even in his most lucid dreams couldn't approach that kind of production.

Anyways here was Todd Helton's. I can see the error in this, but back then Colorado was still a brand new franchise and parkfactors/OPS+ weren't readily available statistics used to measure a player's offensive production. The numbers themselves are outstanding and very 'pretty', but only when looking at 2nd glance with the advent and availability of baseball stats do you truly see the error.

No. Vernon Wells isn't one of the best CFs in the game. His defense has been declining the last 3 years and there are quite a few better CFs in the game. Sizemore to name one. Andruw Jones is better both defensively and offensively, the same can also be said about Granderson or Beltran.

This year will see a slight bounceback from Wells overall, but he wont achieve career numbers by any means. He'll continue his stat-padding against LHP and continue down the road with the same problems he has always had against righties.

No, to earn that contract you have to be far and away the BEST or top 2 at your position. By the end of this year, he'll be lucky to crack the top 10 and for that money, that just isn't acceptable.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Andruw Jones is better both defensively and offensively, the same can also be said about Granderson or Beltran.

Are you kidding, Andruw Jones? Sure he's a good defensive player, but the guy is so homer happy. He has batted .300 once in his career. His high water mark other than that is .277 and his last four years are .261, .263, .262 and an amazing .222 last season. Not to mention the guy has struck out over 100 times in every full season in the majors, 110 times for 7 straight years, six of those over 120 times. His career batting average is .263. Someone watches too much TBS.

Wells has never struck out 100 times, has batted .300 twice and being younger will likely do it again. Sure he doesn't have the one monster homerun year. Career average .281

You can make a case for either being the superior player, which likely means they are about the same and not the better player that you mkae him out to be.

Jones has usually had the better lineup around him as well, something else to consider.

[zukes]

Beltran is not better defensively and hasn't batted .300 since his KC days. His career average is .280. He does steal more than Wells, so maybe slightly better offensively.

Granderson is intriguing but with only 2 full season under his belt it's not comparing apples to apples.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by zukes

Beltran is not better defensively and hasn't batted .300 since his KC days. His career average is .280. He does steal more than Wells, so maybe slightly better offensively.

Granderson is intriguing but with only 2 full season under his belt it's not comparing apples to apples.

According to the fielding bible (one of the best defensive measurements out there), Beltran was the best CF in the game last season.

Only a little bit better offensively?

Try debating without using batting average and strikeouts to make your point and I will take you seriously.