China needs to chill out. Big time.

[Option84]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

According to an "unidentified witness". Yep, that's a reliable source. China has evicted all media and other foreigners from Tibet. Getting an account of what's going on that isn't controlled and censored by China right now is impossible. But go ahead and believe everything the media tells you. If it has been verified by "unidentified witnesses" then it must be true. I'll opt to apply a little bit more critical thinking to the matter.

Yet your critical thinking lends you to believe that buddhist monks are somehow "unable" to commit acts of violence.

[Option84]

Here is a blog by some guy travelling in Tibet right now. Read the most recent posts.

http://kadfly.blogspot.com/

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Option84

Yet your critical thinking lends you to believe that buddhist monks are somehow "unable" to commit acts of violence.

Given that Buddhist monks will go out of their way to avoid stepping on an ant, and based on everything else I've ever read about them, yes. How much have you studied Buddhism? And where in those article does it reliably state that monks are committing violence, rather than average Tibetans?

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Option84

Here is a blog by some guy travelling in Tibet right now. Read the most recent posts.

http://kadfly.blogspot.com/

He must be the only tourist left in Tibet, since they've all supposedly been kicked out of the country. Who is he anyway?

If his report is accurate, then there is not rioting going on at present at all. Why then does the world media say there is? Who can a person believe?

[Option84]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Given that Buddhist monks will go out of their way to avoid stepping on an ant, and based on everything else I've ever read about them, yes. How much have you studied Buddhism? And where in those article does it reliably state that monks are committing violence, rather than average Tibetans?

Do some research into the Buddhist theocratic dictatorship that used to be Tibet. Frankly, I have no vested interest in this whole situation, but everyone has blood on their hands.

[Option84]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

He must be the only tourist left in Tibet, since they've all supposedly been kicked out of the country. Who is he anyway?

If his report is accurate, then there is not rioting going on at present at all. Why then does the world media say there is? Who can a person believe?

Who said there is still rioting going on? Can you provide me a news link that states any rioting occured on the date of Mar.17th Tibet time or any date afterwards?

[Option84]

Here is another blog with first hand eye-witness accounts by some french guy in Lhasa.

http://oimdu.blogspot.com/

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Option84

Do some research into the Buddhist theocratic dictatorship that used to be Tibet. Frankly, I have no vested interest in this whole situation, but everyone has blood on their hands.

Indeed. According to their Chinese masters, Tibetan serfs were little better off than slaves under the old Buddhist theocracy. Yes indeed, according to their Chinese masters. Oddly, Tibetan serf refugees at the time told a different story. At least that's what I've read. I guess it boils down to who you choose to believe.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Option84

Who said there is still rioting going on? Can you provide me a news link that states any rioting occured on the date of Mar.17th Tibet time or any date afterwards?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7304144.stm

[Option84]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Indeed. According to their Chinese masters, Tibetan serfs were little better off than slaves under the old Buddhist theocracy. Yes indeed, according to their Chinese masters. Oddly, Tibetan serf refugees at the time told a different story. At least that's what I've read. I guess it boils down to who you choose to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWGGjpJJCKE

[Option84]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7304144.stm

The only information about rioting in that article, "Reports have emerged of other protests in Chinese provinces bordering Tibet, including Tibetans tearing down a Chinese flag in Gansu province" is about riots in nearby provinces. The blogger in question is in Lhasa currently, or at least was at the time of his last update, so obviously he would have not seen or heard any of it.

[Option84]

Here is some more pictorial proof.

http://images.google.ca/images?um=1&...=Search+Images

[Domer]

Here is a link to the Chinese denying use of force to quell the protest from the official chinese propagandist mouthpiece

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_7809010.htm

"BEIJING, March 18 (UPI) -- The governor of Tibet, blaming supporters of the Dalai Lama for the recent rioting in Lhasa, denies Chinese forces used lethal force to quell the violence.

"Throughout the process, (security forces) did not carry or use any destructive weapons, but tear gas and water cannons were employed," Qiangba Puncog, designated as chairman of the Tibet Autonomous Regional Government, told a news conference, Xinhua reported. "

And here is the pictures of the protestors shot DEAD... (I must warn you that some of the pictures are very distressing and viewer discretion advised)
http://phayul.com/news/article.aspx?t=3&c=1&id=19752

Would you still believe the Chinese propaganda??? If they have nothing to hide? why wouldnt they give free access to the foreign journalist and let the whole world see the TRUTH. Why do they have to censor internet and block youtube

Domer

[Locke]

China is kind of a mess, what with the censoring of the internet and the dubious believability of the Chinese media adn whatnot. It sounds like they need some time to sort everything out.

They should possibly be segregated in order to further some reflective introspection.

Perhaps someone should manufacture some sort of segregating construct?

A great wall of some sort perhaps?

[Option84]

Originally Posted by Domer

Here is a link to the Chinese denying use of force to quell the protest from the official chinese propagandist mouthpiece

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_7809010.htm

"BEIJING, March 18 (UPI) -- The governor of Tibet, blaming supporters of the Dalai Lama for the recent rioting in Lhasa, denies Chinese forces used lethal force to quell the violence.

"Throughout the process, (security forces) did not carry or use any destructive weapons, but tear gas and water cannons were employed," Qiangba Puncog, designated as chairman of the Tibet Autonomous Regional Government, told a news conference, Xinhua reported. "

And here is the pictures of the protestors shot DEAD... (I must warn you that some of the pictures are very distressing and viewer discretion advised)
http://phayul.com/news/article.aspx?t=3&c=1&id=19752

Would you still believe the Chinese propaganda??? If they have nothing to hide? why wouldnt they give free access to the foreign journalist and let the whole world see the TRUTH. Why do they have to censor internet and block youtube

Domer

First of all consider the source of that website, ie look at the banner on the homepage. Second of all, I looked through every picture in the "ngaba protest" section and the "fresh pictures" section. All the pictures in that section depicting bloody bulletwounds are shot inside some building with no datestamp while a majority of the rest do have datestamps. Also I see no evidence of any violence in the "Fresh Pictures" section. Meanwhile all the other sections depict photographs of protests in international consulates and stuff. Get some neutral unbiased media.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

My wife was scheduled to leave for Tibet in three weeks, and her trip was just cancelled. The tour group had their visas suddenly cancelled. Looks like she's going to Thiland instead.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have a National Geographic magazine from the 1980's that has an article about Tibet. The article states that more than 50% of the population of Tibet were ethnic Chinese... being 2008, I bet that is even higher now. It also stated that a great number of Tibetans thought that their old system was holding them back. That is not to say that Tibetans don't have a diverse array of opinions regarding their political status, but it is certainly a complicated issue.

[Option84]

I'm not trying to take sides or try to deny the Tibetan's their freedom. In fact, I think they have been severely oppressed and systematically eliminated for the past 5 decades or so. But regarding this particular situation that occurred the past week or so, I think it is quite obvious that the monks and tibetans initiated the violent acts which have killed other Tibetans as well as Chinese in that area.

Edit: not to mention the western media's severely skewed anti-chinese angle on the story.

Also, I'm not Chinese or a supporter of China. But everyone deserves to get a fair shake in my book.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by mmanzz

Please. Lets get the record straight:

In response to comments about the Khmer Rouge, please get your facts straight, see the link below and it is a matter of historical record that China was a direct supporter of the KR:

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=5687

Same link,

China, as well as the United States, Britain, Singapore,and Thailand, continued supporting the Khmer Rouge even after Vietnam invaded Cambodia in 1978 and put an end to the devastation Pol Pot's regime had unleashed.

Another link

http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/apr1998/plpt-a18.shtml

The most critical role was played by the United States government, which saw Pol Pot as a useful Cold War ally, since he was at war with Vietnam, which was allied to the Soviet Union. With US backing, China supplied the Khmer Rouge with military equipment and the right-wing military regime in Thailand, a US client state, allowed free flow of supplies to Pol Pot's guerrillas in their base camps along the Thai-Cambodian border.

As Zbigniew Brzezinski, Carter's national security adviser, later admitted, "I encouraged the Chinese to support Pol Pot. The question was how to help the Cambodian people. Pol Pot was an abomination. We could never support him, but China could."

[jofillips]

from everything i've read, the last 10 years have seen massive change in tibet - it is far easier to get there (new highway and railway) and apparently has been swamped with immigrant workers.
Add this to the lower status level of tibetans compared to the chinese and you can see why the locals are so angry