Red light cameras cause crashes

[Ironhorse]

While cameras intuitively appear to be a good idea, analysis of data from five studies, including one in Ontario, shows they often cause an increase in injuries and crashes, said study author Barbara Orban.
"People who would otherwise run the yellow are trying to do a quick stop and in doing so they force everybody else to do the same behind them."

What I've been saying (and seeing) for years now. People are paranoid of that $300+ fine, and will do absolute panic stops in cases where they should have kept going.

I still think it is a cash cow and not much else.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...789502&k=45709

[metallicat]

Then they're idiots. If you're driving at a reasonable speed, you should never have a problem stopping at a red light. Even at intersections with cameras, you are allowed to enter the intersection on a yellow light, and proceed through.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

What I've been saying (and seeing) for years now. People are paranoid of that $300+ fine, and will do absolute panic stops in cases where they should have kept going.

I still think it is a cash cow and not much else.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...789502&k=45709

I recall reading a couple of years back that in one municipality in North Carolina that had pilot projects for photo radar and red light cameras. The police raved about how much safer these devices would make the streets and so the municipality allowed it to go full-scale but stipulated that any ticket revenue collected from this would go towards the local public school board as opposed to funding more police on the street which happens in other places (Alberta for one). Within short order eventually all of the camera were removed as the police didn't find them all that effective at improving safety. I'll try to find the article that I read and post it here.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Then they're idiots. If you're driving at a reasonable speed, you should never have a problem stopping at a red light. Even at intersections with cameras, you are allowed to enter the intersection on a yellow light, and proceed through.

I think she's referring to those occasions when the light turns yellow when you're 10 feet from the intersection... the law (and Sammy the Safety Bear) states that the proper course of action is to continue your present momentum and avoid sudden, unsafe stopping.

Some people are panicking about the $300 fine and slamming on their breaks, while the people behind them are (rightly so) expecting them to carry through the intersection.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I think she's referring to those occasions when the light turns yellow when you're 10 feet from the intersection... the law (and Sammy the Safety Bear) states that the proper course of action is to continue your present momentum and avoid sudden, unsafe stopping.

Some people are panicking about the $300 fine and slamming on their breaks, while the people behind them are (rightly so) expecting them to carry through the intersection.

I know, and what is unfortunate, is the morons hammering on their breaks are not to blame for the accidents that occur. I guess people shouldn't be tailgating either, but irrational fear of getting a red light ticket is ridiculous. I can see why people have it, but the have to be better educated than that.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Then they're idiots. If you're driving at a reasonable speed, you should never have a problem stopping at a red light. Even at intersections with cameras, you are allowed to enter the intersection on a yellow light, and proceed through.

From Alberta's Use of Highway and Rules of the Road

Yellow traffic lights

53(1) When, at an intersection, a yellow light is shown by a traffic control signal at the same time as or following the showing of a green light, a person driving a vehicle that is approaching the intersection and facing the yellow light shall stop the vehicle before entering

(a) the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or

(b) if there is not any marked crosswalk, the intersection,

unless the stopping of that vehicle cannot be made in safety.

It's the bolded part, in my opinion, that is key. If, as you say, you are driving at a reasonable speed and the road conditions are fair you would rarely have anything to worry about.

[Azure]

So who drives at reasonable speeds these days?

I think the time period of the yellow light should be extended.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Azure

So who drives at reasonable speeds these days?

I think the time period of the yellow light should be extended.

How about extending the period of time that both lights are red? Giving the cars that decide to step on the gas from 20 feet out time to clear the intersection.

[CrispyGriz]

Originally Posted by Azure

So who drives at reasonable speeds these days?

I think the time period of the yellow light should be extended.

yellow lights in Calgary are already really long. Try driving in Edmonton for a bit, the yellows are almost nonexistent.

[fredr123]

Adding countdown timers to green lights apparently doesn't help either: http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...-traffic-jams/

The results are quite interesting. A research institute within Taiwan’s Ministry of Transportation released a report showing that at 187 intersections which had the timers installed, those that counted down the remaining time on green lights saw a doubling in the number of reported accidents, with a 33 percent increase in the number of injuries, while those that counted down until a red light turned green saw a halving in both the number of reported accidents and injuries. Intersection that had both red and green light timers saw a 19 percent increase in reported accidents and a 23 percent increase in injuries.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Azure

So who drives at reasonable speeds these days?

I think the time period of the yellow light should be extended.

I swear the yellow light timing was shortened at around the same time the red light cameras started appearing.

[Wookie]

I've been thinking this for years.

They should make it mandatory to have the flashing yellow lights (the ones a ways back from the intersection) at any intersection that has a red light camera. The lights aren't flashing when you go under them. You go through the intersection, regardless if the light turns yellow. The lights are flashing? Then you know you have to stop.

Originally Posted by oilers_fan
Then they're idiots. If you're driving at a reasonable speed, you should never have a problem stopping at a red light. Even at intersections with cameras, you are allowed to enter the intersection on a yellow light, and proceed through.

Yes, there are idiots out there, we need to account for them and make it safe for everyone else. These suggestions might do that. Rather than assume the ignorant will suddenly change.

[Madman]

Why not have street lights like the C-Trains have on 7th ave?

Where the yellow flashes to let the driver know to slow down as a yellow light is coming soon.

[Claeren]

Someone just needs to sue the city after a major injury and show the city knew about these studies (and their own data) and ignored them. Even if they lose it could be enough to have them reconsidered?



Claeren.

[The Yen Man]

What I find really handy are those pedestrian crossing signals that count down to when the light will change. I see quite a lot of those in Edmonton, but have only seen a couple of them in Calgary. I love those interesections because it tells me exactly how much time I have left, and whether I should start stopping, or just gun it to get through the intersection before it turns red.

[guzzy]

my bottom line......Cameras generate revenue which saves tax dollars. It is a user fee for stupid people. End of story. Pretty simple concept.

[nieuwy-89]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Someone just needs to sue the city after a major injury and show the city knew about these studies (and their own data) and ignored them. Even if they lose it could be enough to have them reconsidered?

No. Every City has their own reasons and justifications for installing red light cameras. In Alberta, the case has been made that they drastically reduce red-light running and the associated severe collisions. There are cases in Western Canada where red light running at specific intersections has been reduced from hundreds of occurences per week to single digits. There is direct statistical correlation between # of occurences and # of collisions.

Most studies are ambiguous at best about the impact on rear-end collisions. I have seen both ends of the spectrum - in some places the rear-end collisions increase a bit, in other places they decrease.

Its funny how people think that red light cameras are some sort of boogey man - lurking in the shadows of busy urban streets ready to pounce out at you and take your money. Red light cameras are simply an enforcement tool that allow the police to enforce a law (red light running) which is very difficult and resource-intensive to enforce without a technological solution. They are not hidden - in fact most cities clearly sign every intersection where the cameras are located.

The duration of yellow lights and the "all-red" time after the yellow is calculated using published formulas in engineering handbooks. Edmonton and Calgary use the same calculations - and no they did not change the calculation when red light cameras were implemented in the late 90s.

People need to take responsibility for their own actions and driving habits. If you are that worried about being rear-ended, slow down gradually as you approach intersections. The guy behind you will either slow down or go around you. Is it such a bad thing to drive defensively and be aware of your surroundings? Or is it preferable to have open season on red light running?

[Azure]

Or an even better idea....have warning lights prior to the actual redlight....'stop ahead when flashing.'

Lethbridge has them on Crowsnest Trail....and I love them.

[Circa89]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

but irrational fear of getting a red light ticket is ridiculous. I can see why people have it, but the have to be better educated than that.

Isn't that why the fear is called "irrational"?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Madman

Why not have street lights like the C-Trains have on 7th ave?

Where the yellow flashes to let the driver know to slow down as a yellow light is coming soon.

People will stop as soon as the light starts flashing yellow, I'm sure of it (see below)

Originally Posted by Azure

Or an even better idea....have warning lights prior to the actual redlight....'stop ahead when flashing.'

Lethbridge has them on Crowsnest Trail....and I love them.

We have those in Calgary in many locations. People either stop when they see the warning light (and sometimes end up stopped at a green light) or use it as fair warning to gun it and go 150km/h through the yellow/red light.

In Switzerland they actually put the yellow on with the red light to warn you it's about to turn green. You run a red light there, and you are toast because everyone is going immediately or even before the light turns green.