Triumphant! Bush got it right.

[HOZ]

Wrong side of history

Going to have to register to read.

A little taste....

The other day I found myself, for the umpteenth time, driving in Vermont behind a Kerry/Edwards supporter whose vehicle also bore the slogan ‘FREE TIBET’. It must be great to be the guy with the printing contract for the ‘FREE TIBET’ stickers. Not so good to be the guy back in Tibet wondering when the freeing thereof will actually get under way. For a while, my otherwise not terribly political wife got extremely irritated by these stickers, demanding to know at a pancake breakfast at the local church what precisely some harmless hippy-dippy old neighbour of ours meant by the slogan he’d been proudly displaying decade in, decade out: ‘But what exactly are you doing to free Tibet?’ she demanded. ‘You’re not doing anything, are you?’ ‘Give the guy a break,’ I said back home. ‘He’s advertising his moral virtue, not calling for action. If Rumsfeld were to say, “Free Tibet? Jiminy, what a swell idea! The Third Infantry Division go in on Thursday”, the bumper-sticker crowd would be aghast.’

But for those of us on the arrogant unilateralist side of things, that’s not how it works. ‘FREE AFGHANISTAN’. Done. ‘FREE IRAQ’. Done. Given the paintwork I pull off every time I have to change the sticker, it might be easier for the remainder of the Bush presidency just to go around with ‘FREE [INSERT YOUR FETID TOTALITARIAN BASKET-CASE HERE]’. Not in your name? Don’t worry, it’s not.

[Claeren]

You know Afganistan is essentially a warlord state today right? Last year 520,000 acres of land were devoted to the production of at least 5,000 tons of poppy seed that was subsequently refined into heroin and exported all over the world to pay for.... here it comes, terrorist weapons.


You also know the American friendly party in the Iraqi election won ~10% (or lost 90%?) of the vote and that is not including votes from the 25% of Iraqi's who hate them most and were too busy fighting an insurgency to bother voting. The party who won? Oh yeah, none other then the Iran aligned party that "swears to Allah they won't align with Iran or listen to the Grand Atohla's as long as America hands over power ASAP", no really, they swore!!! "Go USA, all the way!" or maybe, "My oil is your oil" would be better stickers???

Second place in the election? Oh yeah, the Kurdish alliance, a party essentially devoted to the establishment of a free northern state. Something in direct opposition to what America promised Turkey pre-war and something that would trigger civil war in Iraq (not to mention Turkey, one of the largest potential powder kegs in the world right now).... compared to just plain old 'insurgency' of today.



blah blah blah....


Funny though, Iraq war has cost another 100 billion dollars just since the last time this came up....


But your right, tying up the bulk of American forces for the last 5 and next 10 years, using up the political capital of 9/11 destablizing world security, legitmizing the use of force by anyone over anyone, spending 300 billion dollars (so far), ignoring Korea and Iran, both greater threats to security pre and post Iraq niot to mention 9/11, killing 100,000+ innocent people in Iraq, another 10,000+ in Afganistan, and 2,000 Americans to get all that done was definitely the right 'action'.

Heaven forbid someone took a deep breath and actually spent some of that money fighting real terroists instead of creating new terrorists, or trying to subdue Korea, a country that is ACTUALLY dangerous.... or EVEN avenging 9/11 and not off padding the pockets of industrialists at the expence of the tax payer....


What do you care? As long as people are dying you are happy, SOMETHING is happening, right? Show up at chuch, think how good it is more muslims died today then christians....post it all on calgarypuck, then off to bed...

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Why is it that an Oiler Fan choses to post-and-run right wing articles all the time on a Calgary Flames board? Aren't the people at OilFans receptive?

[HOZ]

shinguardy to be in your world bub. Honest.

Did you catch what hapened in Lebanon? Joyous wasn't it! Aren't your happy for the people?


Beirut's Berlin Wall

May have to register to read

The leader of this Lebanese intifada is Walid Jumblatt, the patriarch of the Druze Muslim community and, until recently, a man who accommodated Syria's occupation. But something snapped for Jumblatt last year, when the Syrians overruled the Lebanese constitution and forced the reelection of their front man in Lebanon, President Emile Lahoud. The old slogans about Arab nationalism turned to ashes in Jumblatt's mouth, and he and Hariri openly began to defy Damascus.

I dined Monday night with Jumblatt in his mountain fortress in Moukhtara, southeast of Beirut. He moved there for safety last weekend because of worries that he would be the next target of whoever killed Hariri. We sat under a portrait of Jumblatt's father, Kamal, who was assassinated in 1976 after he opposed the initial entry of Syrian troops into Lebanon. With me was Jamil Mroue, a Lebanese #####e journalist whose own father was assassinated by Arab radicals in the 1960s. It was an evening when the ghosts of the past mingled with hopes for the future.

Jumblatt dresses like an ex-hippie, in jeans and loafers, but he maintains the exquisite manners of a Lebanese aristocrat. Over the years, I've often heard him denouncing the United States and Israel, but these days, in the aftermath of Hariri's death, he's sounding almost like a neoconservative. He says he's determined to defy the Syrians until their troops leave Lebanon and the Lahoud government is replaced.

"It's strange for me to say it, but this process of change has started because of the American invasion of Iraq," explains Jumblatt. "I was cynical about Iraq. But when I saw the Iraqi people voting three weeks ago, 8 million of them, it was the start of a new Arab world." Jumblatt says this spark of democratic revolt is spreading. "The Syrian people, the Egyptian people, all say that something is changing. The Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it."

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by HOZ@Mar 8 2005, 11:33 AM
But for those of us on the arrogant unilateralist side of things, that’s not how it works. ‘FREE AFGHANISTAN’. Done. ‘FREE IRAQ’. Done. Given the paintwork I pull off every time I have to change the sticker, it might be easier for the remainder of the Bush presidency just to go around with ‘FREE [INSERT YOUR FETID TOTALITARIAN BASKET-CASE HERE]’. Not in your name? Don’t worry, it’s not.

I don't recall seeing many Free Afghanistan and Free Iraq bumber stickers.

China will give Tibet independence when the US gives Texas back to Mexico... in other word's, in ain't gonna happen.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by I-Hate-Hulse@Mar 8 2005, 03:36 PM
Why is it that an Oiler Fan choses to post-and-run right wing articles all the time on a Calgary Flames board? Aren't the people at OilFans receptive?

Is this a team orientated discussion board. I didn't realise that Bush was an Oiler fan. Mind you it makes sense...



He is a....


WINNER

[HOZ]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Mar 8 2005, 03:41 PM

I don't recall seeing many Free Afghanistan and Free Iraq bumber stickers.

I think that was the point.... and you missed it. Go figure. The Lefties are simply on the WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY.


Mind you there was plenty of hang wringing about how terrible the Taleban treated their women and such before hand wasn't there? I mean before the neocon, unilateralist, warmongerer Christian took their cause to heart. A full about face happened then....

[RougeUnderoos]

All through the worst moments of the insurgency — the real horrors in Fallujah, not the second-hand Nissan set alight on the edge of the Green Zone so the herd of foreign correspondents can film it from their hotel balconies — all through that darkest period, a few of us insisted that between two thirds and three quarters of Iraq was up and running smoothly with functioning government institutions and nascent political parties. And we were right

Wow. Steyn is an entertaining writer but I don't know about labelling the insurgency nothing more than a "second hand Nissan set alight". I'm not so sure about the whole "running smoothly" part either. That's a pretty rosy picture. Maybe he's trying to dump his time-share in Najaf?

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by HOZ+Mar 8 2005, 03:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (HOZ @ Mar 8 2005, 03:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Agamemnon@Mar 8 2005, 03:41 PM

I don't recall seeing many Free Afghanistan and Free Iraq bumber stickers.

I think that was the point.... and you missed it. Go figure. The Lefties are simply on the WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY.


Mind you there was plenty of hang wringing about how terrible the Taleban treated their women and such before hand wasn't there? I mean before the neocon, unilateralist, warmongerer Christian took their cause to heart. A full about face happened then....

[/b][/quote]
Lol, hysterical logic! At least I won't be bored at work today...

So let me get this straight. Because 'lefties' have Free Tibet bumber stickers (because the Right is all about China keeping it?), and because the US hasn't invaded China to 'liberate' Tibet, anyone who supports a free Tibet is on the 'wrong side of history'?

Is your main point here that Bush has failed to assist the Tibetan's plight? Or that there is no plight in Tibet, and that Afghanistan and Iraq were always the 'best' cause to support?

Your logic here is barely coherent.

[Agamemnon]

nm

[HOZ]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Mar 8 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Mar 8 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I think that was the point.... and you missed it. Go figure. The Lefties are simply on the WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY.


Mind you there was plenty of hang wringing about how terrible the Taleban treated their women and such before hand wasn't there? I mean before the neocon, unilateralist, warmongerer Christian took their cause to heart. A full about face happened then....

Lol, hysterical logic! At least I won't be bored at work today...

So let me get this straight. Because 'lefties' have Free Tibet bumber stickers (because the Right is all about China keeping it?), and because the US hasn't invaded China to 'liberate' Tibet, anyone who supports a free Tibet is on the 'wrong side of history'?

Is your main point here that Bush has failed to assist the Tibetan's plight? Or that there is no plight in Tibet, and that Afghanistan and Iraq were always the 'best' cause to support?

Your logic here is barely coherent. [/b][/quote]
Way to miss the point completely bub.

Sorry, I don't have time to explain it to you. Read again.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Mar 8 2005, 03:53 PM
All through the worst moments of the insurgency — the real horrors in Fallujah, not the second-hand Nissan set alight on the edge of the Green Zone so the herd of foreign correspondents can film it from their hotel balconies — all through that darkest period, a few of us insisted that between two thirds and three quarters of Iraq was up and running smoothly with functioning government institutions and nascent political parties. And we were right

Wow. Steyn is an entertaining writer but I don't know about labelling the insurgency nothing more than a "second hand Nissan set alight". I'm not so sure about the whole "running smoothly" part either. That's a pretty rosy picture. Maybe he's trying to dump his time-share in Najaf?

I am sorry but the quote you provided makes your response to it is simply idiotic.


the real horrors in Fallujah, not the second-hand Nissan set alight on the edge of the Green Zone so the herd of foreign correspondents can film it from their hotel balconies

What part of this do you NOT IN FALLUJAH understand?

[RougeUnderoos]

More benefits of the Iraq invasion, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4312547.stm

A Princess of Darkness, a time-travelling pharaoh and an ancient Arabian swordsman are among the superheroes of a new comic book - the first to be designed specifically for the Middle East.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03...n.ap/index.html

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- The results of a CT scan done on King Tut's mummy indicate the boy king was not murdered,

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies...h.ap/index.html

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Shannon Elizabeth, who starred in "American Pie," and husband Joseph Reitman have decided to split,

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/03/06/s...reut/index.html

SANLUCAR DE BARRAMEDA, Spain (Reuters) -- Amid the rows of musty oak barrels piled high in the cellar of La Guita sherry, a dusty wooden statue of a saint stretches out his arms in blessing.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by HOZ+Mar 8 2005, 09:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (HOZ @ Mar 8 2005, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Mar 8 2005, 03:53 PM
All through the worst moments of the insurgency — the real horrors in Fallujah, not the second-hand Nissan set alight on the edge of the Green Zone so the herd of foreign correspondents can film it from their hotel balconies — all through that darkest period, a few of us insisted that between two thirds and three quarters of Iraq was up and running smoothly with functioning government institutions and nascent political parties. And we were right

Wow. Steyn is an entertaining writer but I don't know about labelling the insurgency nothing more than a "second hand Nissan set alight". I'm not so sure about the whole "running smoothly" part either. That's a pretty rosy picture. Maybe he's trying to dump his time-share in Najaf?

I am sorry but the quote you provided makes your response to it is simply idiotic.


the real horrors in Fallujah, not the second-hand Nissan set alight on the edge of the Green Zone so the herd of foreign correspondents can film it from their hotel balconies

What part of this do you NOT IN FALLUJAH understand? [/b][/quote]
Idiotic?

So you agree with him. Outside of Fallujah, the insurgency is nothing more than a burning car?

I disagree.

[Flame On]

Man if Bush ever came to town your nose would be sooooo brown boy.

[octothorp]

Originally posted by HOZ+Mar 8 2005, 08:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (HOZ @ Mar 8 2005, 08:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Agamemnon@Mar 8 2005, 03:41 PM

I don't recall seeing many Free Afghanistan and Free Iraq bumber stickers.

I think that was the point.... and you missed it. Go figure. The Lefties are simply on the WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY. [/b][/quote]
Well, that's just it. Freeing Iraq and Afghanistan was never about liberating people--at least, not until the WoMD theory was demonstrated to be false. All you'd see from supporters of the war was a 'Go USA!' bumper sticker--a nice, simple message that we would be unpatriotic to criticize (were we American), and which contains no note of morality. Of course, it might go hand-in-hand with a message about 'spreading democracy', which is simply a justification for why living in a perpetual war zone isn't really so bad.

History is ultimately a centralizing force. Fring elements on either side (left or right) will be proven wrong. The only way Tibet will be freed is with a complete collapse of China, which doesn't seem particularly likely. I think most FreeTibeters would be satisfied for Tibetans to be given freedom to practice their religion--not something that will happen very soon, but it is possible. Of course, sporting a bumper-sticker won't further that along, either. But the idea that the resolution in Iraq would be swift and painless, or that Iraqis would welcome american involvement in their lives was a popular idea at the beginning of the war, and those ideas were proven to be disasterously wrong. Realists on both the left and the right realized that the US would ultimately win with the Baathist party destroyed, but that the last elements of resistance would be extremely difficult to squash, and that an ongoing democratic Iraq would always be a difficult proposition.

[Agamemnon]

Way to miss the point completely bub.

Sorry, I don't have time to explain it to you. Read again.

Don't have the time? Since when did time become a euphamism for brains?

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by HOZ@Mar 8 2005, 09:47 AM

Is this a team orientated discussion board. I didn't realise that Bush was an Oiler fan. Mind you it makes sense...

Could it be that Edmonton fans seem to vote Liberal all the time? heheheheheh....

At any rate I'm not sure why people fall for your posts when clearly there's nothing to debate with you as you're pretty set in your opinions. The best outcome is that we would both agree to disagree.

[CaptainCrunch]

In all of this left and right debating, I think we missed an important important point.

Shannon Elizabeth is simple again.

Now the whole world can just melt away

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Mar 8 2005, 04:47 PM
In all of this left and right debating, I think we missed an important important point.

Shannon Elizabeth is simple again.

Now the whole world can just melt away

Lol, I hear you Captain, she was always so complicated and sophisticated before... oh... you mean 'single'... right.

:P