Salary Cap Clarification from Wright

[calf]

Link

It's like an episode of Three's Company. Turns out the 2.6 Million figure being thrown around isn't a salary cap, but a salary floor...and there's an upper limit which isn't being disclosed.

As well, the reports of salary figures and disparities between teams aren't nearly as large as the media is reporting.

Don't we all feel silly now.

[Thunderball]

well, lets be honest... $2.6m is chump change for a pro league, especially when coaches and what-not are a part of that total, not to mention the big bad NFL breathing down your neck. If the CFL wants to take things to the next level, we should be looking at a MINIMUM $5m salary cap to attract better NFL/NFL Europe/Arena League guys as well as keep our best, and enforce mandatory upgrades to the league's stadia to have proper conditions, and even luxury boxes, fieldturf or grass, as well as other perks...

If that means that Saskatchewan and Ottawa are replaced with another Toronto team, Halifax, Spokane, Portland, Columbus or whatever... I think thats the price of being a real big league.

So far I think Tom Wright is handling things well and seems to recognize the need to spend more money to make this league better.

[calculoso]

The league is already great. If you're looking for a NFL-2, go looking somewhere else.

The league is like 90% gate driven. The TSN/CBC/Sportsnet/ESPN2/etc television deals don't seem to be bringing in a lot of dough. There would have to be a huge change in this before the minimum $5 million cap would even be thought of.

[Bench Warmer]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Mar 7 2005, 06:44 AM
If that means that Saskatchewan and Ottawa are replaced with another Toronto team, Halifax, Spokane, Portland, Columbus or whatever... I think thats the price of being a real big league.

That isn't the CFL. I hate this attitude - only big market teams can survive and screw the little guys. You lose teams like Saskatchewan and Winnipeg to expand to the US - you lose a lot - great rivalries, great fans - I'd never watch a CFL like that. While I agree the cap should be higher than 2.6 million, you need to have a cap where all current teams can survive.

Thunder, what if all the NHL owners thought this way? See ya Flames. And I'll never watch the NHL again if another Canadian prairie team leaves.

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by Bench Warmer+Mar 7 2005, 10:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bench Warmer @ Mar 7 2005, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunderball@Mar 7 2005, 06:44 AM
If that means that Saskatchewan and Ottawa are replaced with another Toronto team, Halifax, Spokane, Portland, Columbus or whatever... I think thats the price of being a real big league.

That isn't the CFL. I hate this attitude - only big market teams can survive and screw the little guys. You lose teams like Saskatchewan and Winnipeg to expand to the US - you lose a lot - great rivalries, great fans - I'd never watch a CFL like that. While I agree the cap should be higher than 2.6 million, you need to have a cap where all current teams can survive.

Thunder, what if all the NHL owners thought this way? See ya Flames. And I'll never watch the NHL again if another Canadian prairie team leaves. [/b][/quote]
I'm sure if you added up the salaries of all the teams, 5 million is not that farfetched... and we're not talking NFL2... and the US cities were just an example of where teams could go.

And as for the NHL example... there's a huge difference between a 5 million dollar cap and taking care of your stadium to NO cap and rampant salaries in the 40 million dollar range... totally different circumstances. Saskatchewan is barely making it in the CFL as it stands... maybe its not a pro league place, and we shouldn't let it stand in the way of the other 7-8 teams that want to take this league to the next level where we can keep our stars and have excellent Canadian football...

[CaptainCrunch]

The problem with the Riders is that they are severely handicapped by thier tiny stadium, and they're not even coming close to selling it out.

They averaged 24,748 which means based on an average $20.00 ticket they would bring in $4,454,640 per seaon. That means that even if they spent $3 mil for salaries, that only leaves $1.5 million for other expenses.

I hate to say it, and I don't mean to insult the fans, but Regina, unless they get a bigger stadium, or find a way to pack the one they've got, is sitting on the edge of not being able to support a CFL team anymore.

They're sitting at the bottom third of the league in terms of revenue dollars with Ottawa and Winnipeg, and as salary demands are forced upwards, they're going to be in crisis after crisis after crisis.

Now

We know that the government is not going to build a new Stadium, and the team can't afford to build a new stadium, nor can the University.

They're community owned, which means that its unlikely that there's going to be a cash injection from a deep pocketed owner.

We know that if there was a dramatic increase in ticket prices to keep up with the Calgary, Edmonton and B.C. revenue streams that attendance would decrease.

So what do you do?

Now Rider fans have asked me, "But Crunch, the Riders are just like the Flames, whats the difference?"

There are multiple differences grasshopper, I say

1) We're competing with the U.S. Dollar
2) We've got a mjor league building with boxes and everything
3) We don't have a cap to control spending
4) We have a high average revenue, revene is not the problem.

Its come to the time, that the Rough Riders either find private ownership, or the community decides how much thier willing to pay to keep thier team.

[Bench Warmer]

CC - I do see your point about the small market however support is not a problem with the Riders. They were fifth in attendance (middle of the pack) last year and third in 2003 - behind Edmonton and Calgary who are the teams to shoot for when it comes to attendance. The league went through a renassaince year last year and if history has told us anything about the CFL it's that we shouldn't expect that to continue. I hope the CFL continues to thrive - but it won't with 6 teams. If salaris continue to escalate, there will be more than the Riders that will have problems - Ottawa is toast, Winnipeg isn't far behind and Bob Young isn't going to lose $$$ year after year in Hamilton.

Private ownership is a possible solution but I don't know if there enough individuals out there to do this without getting your Horn Chen's, Glieberman, Stan Schwartz, Feteriks of the world - these folks are not the folks you want running your teams IMO.

And I know the comparison to the NHL is comparing apples to oranges except for the high level - it's have vs have not. There are different factors yes but when you have billionaires competing against NPOs, you need a cap which all teams can live with to maintain parity.

[CaptainCrunch]

I am going to argue a little bit on support

CFL Attendance

If you look at the figures in the above link, attendance for the Riders dropped by 5000 per game between 2004 and 2003. Thats a drop of about 15% which is substatial, and leaves them far below all of the other teams in the CFL.

Now I'm not begrudging the fans because there are a lot of other economic facters involved outside of football.

And your right, the Ottawa's an Winnipegs of the world are in severe crisis if you look at thier attendance figures.

So whats the solution, the Riders don't have the money, the market or the fan base to compete, since they have more fans going to road games then home games. So are we supporting them for sentimental reasons? If so thats wrong, because without major marketing, upgrades to thier Stadium etc, a $2.6 million dollar + cap isn't going to help thier situation. And building a new stadium isn't going to increase thier attendance if they can't fill thier old one.

The way I see it, the Riders could be put into Halifax pretty easily, the Bombers can be move to Quebec City, and we would probably have to either fold Ottawa or move it to another Ontario Market.

We've finally got some stabilization going in B.C., Hamilton, Montreal and Toronto. Now we either need to fix the three trouble spots, or move them to markets where they can make money.

To add another point. The league cannot continue to recruit and create and keep star players with a 2.6 million dollar cap. Even the most die hard RR fan will agree with me on that. And the Riders lost thier credibility on complaining about big spending teams spending over the cap when they exceeded it last year and the year before.

[Bench Warmer]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Mar 7 2005, 08:45 PM
I am going to argue a little bit on support

CFL Attendance

If you look at the figures in the above link, attendance for the Riders dropped by 5000 per game between 2004 and 2003. Thats a drop of about 15% which is substatial, and leaves them far below all of the other teams in the CFL.

Now I'm not begrudging the fans because there are a lot of other economic facters involved outside of football.

And your right, the Ottawa's an Winnipegs of the world are in severe crisis if you look at thier attendance figures.

So whats the solution, the Riders don't have the money, the market or the fan base to compete, since they have more fans going to road games then home games. So are we supporting them for sentimental reasons? If so thats wrong, because without major marketing, upgrades to thier Stadium etc, a $2.6 million dollar + cap isn't going to help thier situation. And building a new stadium isn't going to increase thier attendance if they can't fill thier old one.

The way I see it, the Riders could be put into Halifax pretty easily, the Bombers can be move to Quebec City, and we would probably have to either fold Ottawa or move it to another Ontario Market.

We've finally got some stabilization going in B.C., Hamilton, Montreal and Toronto. Now we either need to fix the three trouble spots, or move them to markets where they can make money.

To add another point. The league cannot continue to recruit and create and keep star players with a 2.6 million dollar cap. Even the most die hard RR fan will agree with me on that. And the Riders lost thier credibility on complaining about big spending teams spending over the cap when they exceeded it last year and the year before.

The higher attendance last year was due to the extra seating for Grey Cup. Last year's attendance was more reflective of the normal situation.

I guess one of my arguments would be - and one that's just a difference of opinions - that I don't think the fan support would be stronger in places like Quebec or Halifax. Through lean years - their attendance IMO will be worse than any attendance Sk and Winnipeg would get. Plus, I'm not confident in the stability of Hamilton, Toronto or even BC yet (although Braley is loaded). They all had good years last year - I'm still not convinced their fan base is that strong yet. One only needs to look to 2 years ago in the SE Ont markets.

I guess I don't see Sask or Winnipeg as trouble spots. And I don't see a CFL without them. They're actually both doing pretty well financially right now. Looking down the road though, if costs continue to escalate, things could go south fast - and that could very easily include more than the 3 markets we're focusing on.

You just want the Riders to fold so Rider Nation doesn't come and take over McMahon when they come to town. :P I apologize, now I'm just throwing mud. I am looking forward to heading to Cowtown for the game July 23rd though!

[octothorp]

It's too bad that Riders don't see any of the significant attendence that they cause in other cities. You'd think they'd clue into the fact that paying to see the Riders play in Calgary only strengthens Calgary's bottom line, thus making us even stronger!

I was reading about some league in Europe--I think it was a soccer league--that was trying this idea of 'visitor tickets'. Essentially, a Saskatchewan fan could come to Calgary, but rather than buying a regular ticket, they buy a 'visitor ticket', in which a portion of the revnue of the ticket sales (like, 25%) would go to the visiting team. Similarly, a Calgary fan living in Regina, or Ottawa, or wherever could do the same. Apparently, not only did it act as a form of revenue sharing, but it increased ticket sales league-wide. I don't know if it would work here, and I can't imagine teams like Calgary, BC and Toronto going for it, but a solution like that would be great for Saskatchewan.