Cartoons upset Danish Muslims

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Lucky boy

I was hopeful, but I really didn't expect for you to get my point. I have no one to blame but myself.

Haha, oh good golly. Your point? What point? Some point that we are forcing freedoms on other cultures? Excuse me for wanting the world a better place.

[Resolute 14]

I think we all got your point, it is simply horribly inaccurate.

In most western countries, Denmark included, freedom of speech is a constitutional right. Ergo, those who wish to try and deny that right are in the wrong, no matter what their own views on this issue are. So, yes, your comments about how Jolinar thinks he is not a poodle himself are accurate, but your conclusion is not

In western society, Islamist rules such as this are not supported, and not welcome by society at large. In Islamic societies, their rules reign supreme, and we would be the poodles.

[Lucky boy]

True freedom of speech can never exist. There will always be limitations. I honestly don't believe that anyone here would be okay if an extremely offending cartoon about them or about a family member (such as a daughter or a son) was put up in a major newspaper for the world to see.

Obviously reacting with riots and violence is wrong, but for us to expect muslims to not get offended at all is also wrong. Why should we in the west decide what they should and shouldn't be offended by? Why do we have that right?

That is what I meant by when I said we are forcing our way of thinking on them. I just don't think it is a truly a battle for freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

[flamey_mcflame]

Man, I must be living in an insulated world. I have yet to meet a Muslim who wants to butcher me for my western ways and my heretic beliefs.

I find it sadly ironic that Ezra Levant doesn't see the harm he is doing when he tries to marginalize a segment of the population. Maybe he should ask his ancestors what type of tidal wave of hate that can create.

I think it is just the in thing to bash Muslims these days, I turn on qr77 and every other topic is "what did the evil Muslim(s) do this time". All I know is a lot of countries sure love Islamic oil. Maybe they should use an oil drop as their national flag. Would be great for pr.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Lucky boy

Lets face it, the world is full of different races, and no one group will be able to force their way of thinking on everyone else. Pictures and words can hurt just as much as a punch to the face.

True, no one group will be able to force their way of thinking on someone else, but this isn't forcing any way of thinking, it's doing what they've always done.

It's not a question of "this is what we do in Denmark and you must do it", it's more like "this is what we do in Denmark, umm, period".

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Lucky boy

True freedom of speech can never exist. There will always be limitations. I honestly don't believe that anyone here would be okay if an extremely offending cartoon about them or about a family member (such as a daughter or a son) was put up in a major newspaper for the world to see.

Obviously reacting with riots and violence is wrong, but for us to expect muslims to not get offended at all is also wrong. Why should we in the west decide what they should and shouldn't be offended by? Why do we have that right?

That is what I meant by when I said we are forcing our way of thinking on them. I just don't think it is a truly a battle for freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

This had nothing to do with family. The pictures denoted a religious symbol...cartoons of a God Man. Unless of course you are suggesting that Mohammad is part of your family?

[Itse]

WARNING: INSENSITIVE CHRISTIAN HUMOR AHEAD





Bomb in a turban... That's just so lame.

I'm so tired of this. So someone offended you? GET OVER IT! It's just words, happens all the time in the real world. All religions are constantly badmouthed by some people or the other. What makes Christians somewhat different from muslims is that we actually do most of it ourselves. I mean seriously, nothing I've ever heard from any wacko muslim figurehead comes close to all the pretty out there Jesus jokes that I've heard.

Just for comparison, look at this...


How lame is that? And this...



Pretty offensive right, to suggest that all priests were pedophiles? How come I get the feeling no-ones going to come knocking on my door for posting this. And how about the one called "Jesus F****** Christ" (google it if you haven't seen it)? I actually think that's kinda funny, although mostly as a linguistical joke. (It's just amuzing to play with the idea that when people say stuff like that, they are actually thinking about the words exact meaning. In this case the idea is weird enough to be funny.)

And that's not getting into the more underground stuff. And yet very few people bother to make a fuss about this. And why is that? Because then you'd spend most of your life being angry and getting into trouble, which really doesn't help any cause you might think you'd be fighting for.

Point is, to get upset over those cartoons is ridiculous, _no_ _matter_ _what_. Worst stuff gets circulated every day in every country in the world.

Then again, this doesn't really have anything to do with cartoons as such. Some pricks just wanted to get other people follow them by showing them a good time in destroying other peoples property.

I've always thought that it a correct response would be for Jyllandsposten and other magazines involved to encourage people (preferably muslims) to come up with offensive christian cartoons, and publish those, and start the discussion again from there, with both sides being in a way on equal ground. Yes, some christians would be offended, but I think that situation might actually take the discussion to more constructive places.

[Agamemnon]

So... in reading all of this paranoia, it almost sounds like some of you believe there's a real danger of Western Society being 'Islamified' by Muslim immigrants?

Do you think Western Society, the most dominant economic, political, and social organization that's ever existed is under threat by religious immigrants (I mean, other than the original Christian ones)? I guess it's just me, but I don't really stress about the future of Democracy and Liberalism... they seem to do pretty well for themselves.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So... in reading all of this paranoia, it almost sounds like some of you believe there's a real danger of Western Society being 'Islamified' by Muslim immigrants?

Do you think Western Society, the most dominant economic, political, and social organization that's ever existed is under threat by religious immigrants (I mean, other than the original Christian ones)? I guess it's just me, but I don't really stress about the future of Democracy and Liberalism... they seem to do pretty well for themselves.

You and I will likely be dead before it does happen...but it could....or not.
Hard to discount the facts...

Islam is also the fastest-growing religion. In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years. Some scholars see an emerging Muslim renaissance as Islam takes root in many traditionally Christian communities.
Islam has drawn converts from all walks of life, most notably African-Americans. Former NAACP President Benjamin Chavis, who joined the Nation of Islam recently, personifies the trend.
The shift toward Islamic fundamentalism worries many in the secular world, a fear underscored when splinter groups target Westerners with violent attacks.

Areas to watch: The world’s largest Muslim populations are in fast-growing countries such as Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Egypt, and Iran. Islam also happens to be the fastest growing religion in Europe, where an influx of Muslim immigrants from North Africa, Turkey, and South Asia has sent shock waves into a mostly Christian and secular population whose birthrates have stagnated. The “Muslim question” has empowered anti-immigrant parties in France, Austria, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Germany, while sparking a fierce debate over the place of women in Islam and symbols of faith like the Muslim head scarf.

The List

Its likely that there will be a war fought one day over which religion gains control over the worlds faithful...if those wars havent already started.
Of course I could just be fearmongering or paranoia.

[guzzy]

I am offended by Britney SPears and the constant media attention to the train wreck her life has become. Instead of claiming jihad or threatening to kill people I do the smart thing and refuse to watch it. Seems a little simple but if Danish Muslims have trouble with that....to hell with them.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Lucky boy

True freedom of speech can never exist. There will always be limitations. I honestly don't believe that anyone here would be okay if an extremely offending cartoon about them or about a family member (such as a daughter or a son) was put up in a major newspaper for the world to see.

It's been mentioned, but your comparison is completely invalid. Unless you can show us a family member of Muhammad who is upset about these cartoons.

The comparison would be how offended we would get if an extremely offending cartoon of our $diety/$prophet were put up in a major newspaper for the world to see. I'll leave it to you to figure out how the reactions would be different.

Obviously reacting with riots and violence is wrong, but for us to expect muslims to not get offended at all is also wrong. Why should we in the west decide what they should and shouldn't be offended by? Why do we have that right?

Who's not expecting Muslims to get offended? This may come as a shock to you, but nobody has the right not to be offended. This offended many Christians, but the world at large still respects the artists right to create their work. This is no different.

Or is it different becuase extremist Muslims are more likely to riot, plot murders and threaten a Fatwa against anyone they disagree with, while Christians are more likely to express their discontent with a lot of empty rhetoric? Might makes right?

That is what I meant by when I said we are forcing our way of thinking on them. I just don't think it is a truly a battle for freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

Nobody has said "You are not allowed to maintain your religious rule about images of Muhammad." What the world is saying is "You are not allowed to push your religious rule on us. We are not Muslim, we have our own beliefs, and we have our own rights to express them."

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To me there always seems to be a huge tolerance issue here. Different groups demand that we be tolerant towards their belief structures and religous structures, but when our belief structures, laws or other issues collide with theirs, they don't believe in two way tolerance.

For example, freedom of speech and expression is one of the pillars of our society, yet it doesn't matter if it conflicts with the Muslim's religeous beliefs, and they're not willing to compromise, or take the steps in this case to assimilate into society.

As an analogy, if my neighbour leaves his house and comes to stay with me and demands that I don't cook meat because he hates the smell, oh and I can't nail my girlfriend because the thought offends him (ok, I'm not pretty)

There's no compromise possible, and this is where immigrant Muslims are getting a poor name.

I read an article where they talked about being isolated from Western Society, yet they make next to no effort to work to change it, or to soften their stance.

Its ok to be bull headed, but its dumb to do it to prove a point.

Just rambling I guess.

Captain you are too polite.

It comes down to a simple fact: Do we tolerate barbarians or do we stand up to them and defend OUR principles? Muslims are not a borg-like culture. But there is a very dangerous element, the barbarians...

Too many make excuses for the barbarians. You ARE ALLOWED to offend the OFFENDED!!! Cheese is the litmus test. I may be offended by him and get frick'n angry....but he is ALLOWED to be a &%$#!!!!!!

May Bin LAYING LOW Laden be humped up the butt by a Jew Homo!!!

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Captain you are too polite.

It comes down to a simple fact: Do we tolerate barbarians or do we stand up to them and defend OUR principles? Muslims are not a borg-like culture. But there is a very dangerous element, the barbarians...

Too many make excuses for the barbarians. You ARE ALLOWED to offend the OFFENDED!!! Cheese is the litmus test. I may be offended by him and get frick'n angry....but he is ALLOWED to be a &%$#!!!!!!

May Bin LAYING LOW Laden be humped up the butt by a Jew Homo!!!

wow...I offend Hoz? Well what do you know?
ce la vie

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Cheese

wow...I offend Hoz? Well what do you know?
ce la vie

LUV YA

GanGSTA

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So... in reading all of this paranoia, it almost sounds like some of you believe there's a real danger of Western Society being 'Islamified' by Muslim immigrants?

Do you think Western Society, the most dominant economic, political, and social organization that's ever existed is under threat by religious immigrants (I mean, other than the original Christian ones)? I guess it's just me, but I don't really stress about the future of Democracy and Liberalism... they seem to do pretty well for themselves.

It depends what you believe.

Do you believe that its insane for a pregnant woman to walk into busy street cafe and blow herself up?

I would hope you would say yes, the problem lies in that the other guys dont think its so insane. Its like a game of touch football, as soon as someone crosses the line with a hit they have to be either dealt with by telling them to get lost or by popping them in the mouth so they know the consequences of thier actions or you have to quit (ie give up).

In this real game of touch football, I for one refuse to quit, and if making that stand means supporting some POS cartoon that I would normally give no more attention then some other BS cartoon, then so be it.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Reward: Showing them that we will stand up for our values and beliefs.

If western societies become scared to practice one of our main tenants then they have succeeded. Do you not see that?

Going back to your example with the poodle. If it bit me, I would give it a good whack and try it again. If it bit me again, I would give it a good whack and it will eventually realize not to bite.

So you're saying that we should publish the cartoons, let the crazys riot, and then kick the crap out of them untill they stop getting offended?

The beatings will continue until morale improves I suppose.

With freedom comes responsibility.
With freedom of speach comes the responsiblity to think about the reaction to your worlds.
Are they going to offend people, I'd agree, that is irrelevant, because it is your right to offend people.
Are your words going to incite violence? I'd say this is a case where they probably would, so you should think twice about saying them.

[Lucky boy]

I honestly fully believe that my freedom of expression should not give me the right to hurt/offend someone else.

How am I to decide what and what not should offend you? Why do I have that right? I just don't understand that concept.

To muslims, the prophet is just as important, if not more than a direct family member. He is a role model in every way for muslims.

Just my point of view though ...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Lucky boy

True freedom of speech can never exist.

Nope you're wrong.

It does exist. I can say whatever I want.

But at times there might be consequences.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Do you think Western Society, the most dominant economic, political, and social organization that's ever existed is under threat by religious immigrants (I mean, other than the original Christian ones)?

Well you already have idiot Archbishops saying that Sharia law 'should' be imposed in Britain.

And a week ago most of us agreed that such a thing would never happen.

I don't think it will either....not unless we start giving up the right to free speech.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Man, I must be living in an insulated world. I have yet to meet a Muslim who wants to butcher me for my western ways and my heretic beliefs.

I find it sadly ironic that Ezra Levant doesn't see the harm he is doing when he tries to marginalize a segment of the population. Maybe he should ask his ancestors what type of tidal wave of hate that can create.

I think it is just the in thing to bash Muslims these days, I turn on qr77 and every other topic is "what did the evil Muslim(s) do this time". All I know is a lot of countries sure love Islamic oil. Maybe they should use an oil drop as their national flag. Would be great for pr.

You should stay in your insulated world.

I find it sad that you can't make the difference between Islamic Extremists...and the 'normal' Muslim. You know the 'fanatics'...who want to kill people in the name of their Jihad, and those would want to practice their religion in peace.

I think most of us here understand that difference.