Project for a New American Century

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Uh huh. I'm not one of them. What's your point.



Yes, they did. They needed an even so catestrophic that it would completely shutdown the public's ability to reason. The outrage that would be required to execute the sweeping plans on the table would require the nation to swallow anything that was said and fall in lockstep behind "the President".

You know what's pathetic, Dis? The failure of the Average American to acknowledge that we are coming up on twice that number of American dead in Iraq and Afganistan, and then the 100 times that of dead in those countries from the "wars" that followed.

The PNAC stated exactly what they would need to institute their vision of a new American empire, and that was delivered for them less than a year after assuming power. What a stunning coincidence!

Apparently 9/11 did that for 70 million Americans if your numbers are correct.

I just shake my head because I know you're an intelligent guy. I've met you in person.

You have written before about the over the top patriotism and bravado of Americans. Do you REALLY think they needed that kind of event to be convinced that Saddam Hussein was a really bad guy and needed to be taken out (the premise of the war). I don't.

It's such a huge stretch. The # of people involved that would have to be quiet is astonishing. Impossible.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

What?

9/11 happened 9 months into Bush's term.

Are you saying that terrorists actively planned such an attack in that timeframe?

Let me clarify.

Are you saying that Bin Laden started planning the 9/11 attacks 'right' after the inauguration, and not a minute before? Would it matter if I said that Tenet was Director of the CIA before Bush came to office?

It's not when they started planning it, it's when Bush learned of the plan, if he did.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Azure

What?

9/11 happened 9 months into Bush's term.

Are you saying that terrorists actively planned such an attack in that timeframe?

Let me clarify.

Are you saying that Bin Laden started planning the 9/11 attacks 'right' after the inauguration, and not a minute before? Would it matter if I said that Tenet was Director of the CIA before Bush came to office?

It's not hard to believe that the Bush administration may have deliberately ignored reports about a massive attack on US Soil in the hopes that an event of 9/11's magnitude would result.

It's happened before in American history. I may be incorrect on this, but I do recall some controversy over whether or not the attack on Pearl Harbor was known in advance.

The effect is part of Naomi Klein's book "The Shock Doctrine".

[Blaster86]

I think if Bush and Co knew about the attack, I don't think they expected something of the magnitude that it was.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

Willie Nelson believes that too.

And he smokes a lot of pot.

You too?

You must watch the O'reily factor?

How do people explain the 100's of US officials and educated, accomplished professionals that doubt the common beliefs associated with 9/11?

http://www.WantToKnow.info/officials...mmissionreport

http://www.wanttoknow.info/070618professorsquestion911

Or John Perkins Book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman?"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...44393356669182

These are not 'potheads'. Your dismissal of these theories is nothing short of naive.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It's not when they started planning it, it's when Bush learned of the plan, if he did.

I understand your thinking in the last post and that you're far from agreeing with Lanny....but even that is a stretch of collossal proportions. I would like to know where the agents who obtained the information are buried. Obviously the administration would've had to kill several people who would not have been doing their jobs had they agreed to go along with Bush's evil plan.

Impossible.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It's not when they started planning it, it's when Bush learned of the plan, if he did.

If he did.

I know you're not some conspiracy wacko Vulcan, so I can at least understand your point. I'll leave it at that.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

It's such a huge stretch. The # of people involved that would have to be quiet is astonishing. Impossible.

The number of people required to pull it off is minimal. It's called compartmentalization and it works every day to keep information secure and operations clicking away. As long as people are following their orders, they don't think or care about the butterfly effect of their actions. Depending on what your belief of the events are, and there are many theories, to make 9/11 happen, all you needed was a series of exercises and a stand-down order to NORAD to let things happen. That's the lynch pin. Guess where that order came from?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I understand your thinking in the last post and that you're far from agreeing with Lanny....but even that is a stretch of collossal proportions. I would like to know where the agents who obtained the information are buried. Obviously the administration would've had to kill several people who would not have been doing their jobs had they agreed to go along with Bush's evil plan.

Impossible.

Agreed. Wouldn't even the magnitude of uncovering such an horrific scheme be good enough to go to war, so they wouldn't get another chance to go do it again? Maybe that's a stretch, but less of one than some are making about the alternative that the US government knew in advance and allowed 9/11 to happen.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

The number of people required to pull it off is minimal. It's called compartmentalization and it works every day to keep information secure and operations clicking away. As long as people are following their orders, they don't think or care about the butterfly effect of their actions. Depending on what your belief of the events are, and there are many theories, to make 9/11 happen, all you needed was a series of exercises and a stand-down order to NORAD to let things happen. That's the lynch pin. Guess where that order came from?

Complete and utter BS.

The information would've had to come from normal intelligence gathering. Where are the agents who initially obtained it? With all the whistleblowing that has gone on in that administration in the last 5 years do you really think they'd be quiet?

NORAD...what does NORAD have to do with it?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

These are not 'potheads'. Your dismissal of these theories is nothing short of naive.

I'm not going to get into debating stupid conspiracy theories with you. The biggest problem with the 'truth movement' is your complete inability to understand the difference between 'qualified' people(i.e. civil engineers)...'proving' that 9/11 wasn't an inside job, and complete morons(i.e. Alex Jones and everyone associated with Loose Change)....stating an 'opinion.'

There was a computer simulation done a while back showcasing exactly how the towers fell down. In fact, I started a thread on it(or maybe it was Cowperson)...so I'll dig it up for you if I can.

We've been through this a million times before....and I see absolutely no reason to give credence to your 'movement.'

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by llama64

It's not hard to believe that the Bush administration may have deliberately ignored reports about a massive attack on US Soil in the hopes that an event of 9/11's magnitude would result.

It's happened before in American history. I may be incorrect on this, but I do recall some controversy over whether or not the attack on Pearl Harbor was known in advance.

The effect is part of Naomi Klein's book "The Shock Doctrine".

Okay now we're into the Tin Foil Hat people. From the looks of this thread next poster's going to quote Chomsky.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Obviously the administration would've had to kill several people who would not have been doing their jobs had they agreed to go along with Bush's evil plan.

Impossible.

Hmmmm. 3,000 killed in the attack. They've sent almost 6,000 young men and women to their deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq. Oh no, they would have had to kill "several" people to make this plan happen? Impossible??? Come on Dis, based on the actions of these clowns, its not only possible, its very likely. The contempt they show for the average American is appalling.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Okay now we're into the Tin Foil Hat people. From the looks of this thread next poster's going to quote Chomsky.

Yeah, I was going to say that my pride would be hurt from having to read Naomi Klein. Next person is going to throw out some Shadia Drury quote about those nasty Straussians.

[Azure]

Here is the thread I mentioned about the computer simulation.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...d+trade+center

I do see that Lanny has gone from a missile hitting the Pentagon, to now saying that the planes flew into it because someone told NORAD to 'stand down.'

There must be hope.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Hmmmm. 3,000 killed in the attack. They've sent almost 6,000 young men and women to their deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq. Oh no, they would have had to kill "several" people to make this plan happen? Impossible??? Come on Dis, based on the actions of these clowns, its not only possible, its very likely. The contempt they show for the average American is appalling.

And the incompetence they've shown in Afghanistan and Iraq over the last 6 and half years shows that they lack the intelligence, sophistication and cooperation to pull off what you suggest.

I am seriously shocked that you believe this.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm not going to get into debating stupid conspiracy theories with you. The biggest problem with the 'truth movement' is your complete inability to understand the difference between 'qualified' people(i.e. civil engineers)...'proving' that 9/11 wasn't an inside job, and complete morons(i.e. Alex Jones and everyone associated with Loose Change)....stating an 'opinion.'

There was a computer simulation done a while back showcasing exactly how the towers fell down. In fact, I started a thread on it(or maybe it was Cowperson)...so I'll dig it up for you if I can.

We've been through this a million times before....and I see absolutely no reason to give credence to your 'movement.'

Nevermind loose change, those guys are after the physics of the building collapse more than anyone. It's the motive clearly outlined by the link's I've provided above. Have you entertained reading even a single one? No.

I'd love to have someone rebut the Military generals and civil engineers that doubt the findings of the 9/11 commission.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Nevermind loose change, those guys are after the physics of the building collapse more than anyone. It's the motive clearly outlined by the link's I've provided above. Have you entertained reading even a single one? No.

I'd love to have someone rebut the Military generals and civil engineers that doubt the findings of the 9/11 commission.

Even if the report of the 9/11 commision is one big lie, it doesn't make what you and Lanny are saying any less impossible.

[burn_this_city]

Some of you guys should watch "Terror Storm" on the web.. I'm not saying its true or I completely believe it.. But it definately brings up some compelling points.. Lanny is possibly on to something, the coincidences are pretty amazing..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...48453686176230

The CIA has been involved in false flag operation before that they've openly admitted..

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I'd love to have someone rebut the Military generals and civil engineers that doubt the findings of the 9/11 commission.

Link?

I still don't understand what you're trying to say.

Lanny's point, if I understand correctly, is that terrorists did fly the planes into the Twin Towers, and into the Pentagon, but that Bush knew about it, and commanded NORAD to not track the planes, or whatever the hell he means.

Are you saying the same thing? That the towers weren't brought down by controlled demolition?