Best All-Time Raptors Team

[OILFAN #81]

C - Antonio Davis
SF - Tracy McGrady
PF - Chris Bosh
PG - Damon Stoudamire
SG - Vince Carter

Bench:

Charles Oakley
Doug Christie
Jalen Rose
Alvin Williams
Morris Peterson
Jerome Williams
Matt Bonner

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=229012&hubname=

Can't really argue with the starters. On the bench I would have had Camby or Calderon over Bonner.

[Prototype]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

Can't really argue with the starters. On the bench I would have had Camby or Calderon over Bonner.

That's like saying that you'd take Zo as well, or Marty St. Louis as an all time Flame for what he did as on a different roster. Camby did nothing as a Raptor, he was a joke. You can't hate the Red Rocket... come on now.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Prottotype

That's like saying that you'd take Zo as well, or Marty St. Louis as an all time Flame for what he did as on a different roster. Camby did nothing as a Raptor, he was a joke. You can't hate the Red Rocket... come on now.

I don't hate the Red Rocket but he didn't really do much on the Raptors either. Played 2 seasons on the Raptors and averaged 7 PPG less then an assist a game and like 2-3 rebounds a game. Calderon has done more on the Raptors already then Bonner ever did. Then there's Camby averaged 15 PPG on his 2 seasons as a Raptor and was great in bringing down rebounds. But Calderon for sure over Bonner no question in my mind.

[JiriHrdina]

Keon Clark was pretty good off the bench. I'd probably take him over Bonner.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

I don't hate the Red Rocket but he didn't really do much on the Raptors either. Played 2 seasons on the Raptors and averaged 7 PPG less then an assist a game and like 2-3 rebounds a game. Calderon has done more on the Raptors already then Bonner ever did. Then there's Camby averaged 15 PPG on his 2 seasons as a Raptor and was great in bringing down rebounds. But Calderon for sure over Bonner no question in my mind.

Ditto McGrady who didn't do anything of note till he left the Raptors. Davis as the best center sure tells you a lot about about sucky that position has been for the Raps. That position on the alltime list is wide open.

[FlamingLonghorn]

There shouldn't even be an all time Raptors list...

[StrayBullet]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Keon Clark was pretty good off the bench. I'd probably take him over Bonner.

Yea... but that's like saying Jamario Moon is good.

[octothorp]

I liked this list better:

http://tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=229106&hubname=

Actually, this list just makes me angry.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I liked this list better:

http://tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=229106&hubname=

Actually, this list just makes me angry.

It's ridiculous the misconceptions alot of U.S.-born NBA players have about playing in Canada. The Vancouver Grizzlies could offer up a similar list I'm sure(Steve Francis comes to mind. I remember before the draft, his excuse to not wanna come out here was because he's an East Coast boy, and Vancouver's too far West. Then the Canadian reporter, sensing the B.S. said "So you're saying you wouldnt play for the Lakers either??", to which Francis just lowered his head, sheepishly smiled and added meekly "No I'd go there, I mean its the Lakers". What a punk). I also remember when the Grizzlies drafted Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. He said when he got to Vancouver he was shocked at how modern it was, he said he expected moose to be all over the roads. Seriously.

This is why I really like the moves Colangelo is taking with this current team. I think he realizes Toronto is arguably the least-desired place to play for U.S.-born players(basically the Oilers of the NBA, with a much better GM), so he seems to be trying to get the inside edge on the European talent-base, possibly urging more Euro FA's to want to sign in Toronto in the future. I also like how the only U.S.-born players Colangelo and the Raptors now pursue are "high character" types, like a Chris Bosh. Colangelo definitely gets the Toronto basketball market, and what types of player he needs to bring here in order to be successful. I'm really starting to see why he won the NBA's best Executive award in '07.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

It's ridiculous the misconceptions alot of U.S.-born NBA players have about playing in Canada. The Vancouver Grizzlies could offer up a similar list I'm sure(Steve Francis comes to mind. I remember before the draft, his excuse to not wanna come out here was because he's an East Coast boy, and Vancouver's too far West. Then the Canadian reporter, sensing the B.S. said "So you're saying you wouldnt play for the Lakers either??", to which Francis just lowered his head, sheepishly smiled and added meekly "No I'd go there, I mean its the Lakers". What a punk). I also remember when the Grizzlies drafted Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. He said when he got to Vancouver he was shocked at how modern it was, he said he expected moose to be all over the roads. Seriously.

This is why I really like the moves Colangelo is taking with this current team. I think he realizes Toronto is arguably the least-desired place to play for U.S.-born players(basically the Oilers of the NBA, with a much better GM), so he seems to be trying to get the inside edge on the European talent-base, possibly urging more Euro FA's to want to sign in Toronto in the future. I also like how the only U.S.-born players Colangelo and the Raptors now pursue are "high character" types, like a Chris Bosh. Colangelo definitely gets the Toronto basketball market, and what types of player he needs to bring here in order to be successful. I'm really starting to see why he won the NBA's best Executive award in '07.

I agree with everything you said, but I'm just not sure Colangelo is making the correct moves to take the Raps to the next level. Character and bench depth is great, but as starters, many of these players make this team simply average IMO. This offseason, I was pretty happy about the additional good-guy Euro's, but now looking at these guys, Delfino has really been the only consistent one, along with Moon (not Euro, but more of a credit to good scouting). I don't know, to me, it just seems like he went for depth when at this point it's clear a solid starter is needed more. Secondly, it looked like he went for the good-guy European for the sake of making this team more of an international flavor, just for the sake of doing so. Right now, I just think they're a first round exit with a small possibility of moving on the round 2. Now, if they can get a rebounder like Dalembert, we're talking something higher.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by fleury

I agree with everything you said, but I'm just not sure Colangelo is making the correct moves to take the Raps to the next level. Character and bench depth is great, but as starters, many of these players make this team simply average IMO. This offseason, I was pretty happy about the additional good-guy Euro's, but now looking at these guys, Delfino has really been the only consistent one, along with Moon (not Euro, but more of a credit to good scouting). I don't know, to me, it just seems like he went for depth when at this point it's clear a solid starter is needed more. Secondly, it looked like he went for the good-guy European for the sake of making this team more of an international flavor, just for the sake of doing so. Right now, I just think they're a first round exit with a small possibility of moving on the round 2. Now, if they can get a rebounder like Dalembert, we're talking something higher.

I think he has done the best he can - remember, getting franchise players takes a lot of luck and it almost always is your first round pick which snags one. Rarely are these kinds of things done in trade or signings, unless it is a blockbuster major deal.

Be nice if BC could pull off a KG to Boston type deal, but those are generally the exception rather than the norm. You just have to be patient and wait for your shot to draft an impact player.

Speaking of one talented player who wants a change of scenary... Artest appears to be at it again and asking for an out. Granted, it is a big risk to bring a guy like that in, but I think he'd be exactly what the Raps need - a starter who can drive to the net/defend at the SF position. He'd probably last 2 years in the Raptors system before demanding another trade, but he is a great talent. Might work for the Raps for a while.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I think he has done the best he can - remember, getting franchise players takes a lot of luck and it almost always is your first round pick which snags one. Rarely are these kinds of things done in trade or signings, unless it is a blockbuster major deal.

Be nice if BC could pull off a KG to Boston type deal, but those are generally the exception rather than the norm. You just have to be patient and wait for your shot to draft an impact player.

Speaking of one talented player who wants a change of scenary... Artest appears to be at it again and asking for an out. Granted, it is a big risk to bring a guy like that in, but I think he'd be exactly what the Raps need - a starter who can drive to the net/defend at the SF position. He'd probably last 2 years in the Raptors system before demanding another trade, but he is a great talent. Might work for the Raps for a while.

I agree. The fact is, Colangelo took over a roster filled with guys like Mike James, Antonio Davis, Eric Williams, Loren Woods, Pape Sow, Rafael Araujo, Charlie Villanueva, Matt Bonner etc. and through free agency or trades has managed to bring in guys like Parker, Garbajosa, Delfino, Kapono, Moon, Nesterovic, Humphries.

My point is that in order to be able to make trades for quality players you need to be able to offer quality back. What Colangelo has assembled with what he was given has been nothing short of spectacular IMO. Now that he has a much more talented roster he will be able to chase more talented players and actually have a chance to land them because of what he is able to offer other teams. This is a luxury Toronto fans have never seen. People need to remember that Colangelo is still in the early stages of building this franchise, it took him years in Phoenix to build what they have now and I would not be surprised if it took him another 3-4 years to build a championship contender in Toronto. It takes time to assemble the right pieces but i have faith the wait will be worth it in the end.

[JohnnyFlame]

[quote=CaramonLS;1181420]I think he has done the best he can - remember, getting franchise players takes a lot of luck and it almost always is your first round pick which snags one. Rarely are these kinds of things done in trade or signings, unless it is a blockbuster major deal.

Be nice if BC could pull off a KG to Boston type deal, but those are generally the exception rather than the norm. You just have to be patient and wait for your shot to draft an impact player.

Speaking of one talented player who wants a change of scenary... Artest appears to be at it again and asking for an out. Granted, it is a big risk to bring a guy like that in, but I think he'd be exactly what the Raps need - a starter who can drive to the net/defend at the SF position. He'd probably last 2 years in the Raptors system before demanding another trade, but he is a great talent. Might work for the Raps for a while.[/quot

I think your idea is dead on but it's the wrong year. Personally I don't think they are ready for a move like this. I'd rather see them add some guy who is younger and a developing defender and rebounder. Some guy who will grow with the team.

Artest is wrong personality for the team and wrong age and I don't think the team is at a point where they are so ready to compete they could add a guy like this and it would put them over the top. Plus I wonder what they would give up to get him.

His skill set is just what they need but I would much rather see it in a younger, cheaper, team orientated guy who grows with the team.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I think your idea is dead on but it's the wrong year. Personally I don't think they are ready for a move like this. I'd rather see them add some guy who is younger and a developing defender and rebounder. Some guy who will grow with the team.

Artest is wrong personality for the team and wrong age and I don't think the team is at a point where they are so ready to compete they could add a guy like this and it would put them over the top. Plus I wonder what they would give up to get him.

His skill set is just what they need but I would much rather see it in a younger, cheaper, team orientated guy who grows with the team.

I agree with that approach, but I'm curious to know if you have anyone specific in mind. I don't really follow young prospects that closely.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I agree with that approach, but I'm curious to know if you have anyone specific in mind. I don't really follow young prospects that closely.

The guys who come to mind are always probably too good for them to acquire like a Chris Wilcox. He is on a crappy team, injury prone and 25 years old so he looks like a target. But the guy is scoring like 13 pts a game and hauling in 7 rebounds. Plus they are a rebuilding team so I doubt they want to move him.

I tend to pick out guys like him but who knows if they can add his type or want to give up what would be required.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I think your idea is dead on but it's the wrong year. Personally I don't think they are ready for a move like this. I'd rather see them add some guy who is younger and a developing defender and rebounder. Some guy who will grow with the team.

Artest is wrong personality for the team and wrong age and I don't think the team is at a point where they are so ready to compete they could add a guy like this and it would put them over the top. Plus I wonder what they would give up to get him.

His skill set is just what they need but I would much rather see it in a younger, cheaper, team orientated guy who grows with the team.

I hear ya man, Artest is usually a guy you'd add when all else fails and you think your team might be on the verge of disintigrating or getting past it's prime. You know though, Artest is only 28.

Yeah Wilcox would be a solid fit for this team. An all-purpose Center who can rebound/score. Of course, adding a combination of Artest/Wilcox would pretty much address every single question mark surrounding this team - aka defense and low post play.

How much would it take to get Artest? Probably not as much as you'd think, given his history.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I hear ya man, Artest is usually a guy you'd add when all else fails and you think your team might be on the verge of disintigrating or getting past it's prime. You know though, Artest is only 28.

Yeah Wilcox would be a solid fit for this team. An all-purpose Center who can rebound/score. Of course, adding a combination of Artest/Wilcox would pretty much address every single question mark surrounding this team - aka defense and low post play.

How much would it take to get Artest? Probably not as much as you'd think, given his history.

I think Artest is the exact type of player who would have ill-conceived notions about Canada and wouldnt want to play up here.

[flames_fan_down_under]

How Camby can be left off that list is bizarre. Also Chauncey Billups, although only playing 29 games as a raptor, should be on the list.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

I agree. The fact is, Colangelo took over a roster filled with guys like Mike James, Antonio Davis, Eric Williams, Loren Woods, Pape Sow, Rafael Araujo, Charlie Villanueva, Matt Bonner etc. and through free agency or trades has managed to bring in guys like Parker, Garbajosa, Delfino, Kapono, Moon, Nesterovic, Humphries.

My point is that in order to be able to make trades for quality players you need to be able to offer quality back. What Colangelo has assembled with what he was given has been nothing short of spectacular IMO. Now that he has a much more talented roster he will be able to chase more talented players and actually have a chance to land them because of what he is able to offer other teams. This is a luxury Toronto fans have never seen. People need to remember that Colangelo is still in the early stages of building this franchise, it took him years in Phoenix to build what they have now and I would not be surprised if it took him another 3-4 years to build a championship contender in Toronto. It takes time to assemble the right pieces but i have faith the wait will be worth it in the end.

Exactly, toronto sports fans in particular have a huge issue with lack of patience. Quit demanding winning all the time when its not possible. Be happy the team is making the playoffs and see that in a few short seasons it should be one of the leagues best with colangelo at the helm.

[Prototype]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

How Camby can be left off that list is bizarre. Also Chauncey Billups, although only playing 29 games as a raptor, should be on the list.

All time teams should be reserved for players who made lasting contributions to that team. Camby and Billips, IMO, blossomed on other rosters.

Again, that's like saying Brett Hull should be on the All Time Flames roster. Sure, amazing player... for STL, DAL, and arguably DET (but not all time DET worthy)... not so much for the Flames.