Stelmach calls election

[maverickeastwood]

The PC insiders yet seem to be confident in Stelmach, otherwise there would have been a leadership review, wouldn't there?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ To me this is a pretty easy answer. Vote Liberal. If no other party has a chance to win seats and make a difference than sending a strong contingent of opposition MLA's is the best thing you can do. Let's face it...the Liberals will not win the government here, but if there are a lot of opposition MLA's at least they can provide some balance to the proceedings, and present an alternative viewpoint.

But doesn't that show the Liberals that people think they are doing a good job which is obviously not the case? It doesn't seem to be any different than voting for a PC party that you are unhappy with. What motivation would there to be for the Liberals to change their policies if they are able to get a big jump in seats/votes. Perhaps if they had some inteligence in the party they might realise that the boost came more from people upset with the PC's than happy with the Liberals but with the morons running that party I doubt they would see that at all.

The problem that it seems that many people have hear is that as bad as the PC's have been under Stelmach they still are the best choice. So while people say they are not happy with the PC's but will still vote for them it makes sense as there is no reason to give other parties the sense they are doing things right by voting for them in protest if they are worse than the PC's in your view.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ To me this is a pretty easy answer. Vote Liberal. If no other party has a chance to win seats and make a difference than sending a strong contingent of opposition MLA's is the best thing you can do. Let's face it...the Liberals will not win the government here, but if there are a lot of opposition MLA's at least they can provide some balance to the proceedings, and present an alternative viewpoint.

Trouble is, that alternative viewpoint consists of things that will only tax us harder. I don't think its particularly wise to have a rural minded spendocrat with no plan having his opposition being left-leaning spendocrats with no real understanding of Alberta's economics.

I don't think cutting right to the bone on everything was sound governmental policy for a province that was still experiencing healthy growth, Bobblehead. I think Klein cut too hard, and had no plan for when things got bright again... and we're really paying for it now. I'm all for cutting the fat off the budget, reducing redundancies, administration and bureaucracy... but I think demolishing innercity hospitals, laying off nurses, stalling on capital projects while labour was cheap and unemployed, and budgetting like Oil and Gas would be indefinitely worthless will go down in history as a colossal blunder.

I think this province needs a fiscally pragmatic party that realizes governments can't run and compete like businesses and have to run counter business and responsibly... the closest party to that is the Alliance, but they have to work hard on their image.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by maverickeastwood

The PC insiders yet seem to be confident in Stelmach, otherwise there would have been a leadership review, wouldn't there?

Possibly... but they also wouldn't want to have shown weakness before an election. If they think he's a pisspoor leader, the last thing they'd want to do is make that public knowledge. Everyone knew Stelmach would have to call an election within 18 months of his election as leader. His leadership review comes after the election when the dust clears and many of their MLAs are missing.

[maverickeastwood]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

That's a pretty naive view on things.

It was a similar situation to what is happening here in AB - nobody liked EITHER of the 2 main parties, they voted NDP without expecting them to win.

And yeah, it kicked them in the ass.

So then Mike Harris swept to power in his "Common Sense Revolution". Similar to when Ralph came in and made cuts, there were demonstrations by public sector workers, OPSEU (Ontario Public Sector Employees Union) had a long strike, but next election Harris won again. When he stepped down, the (fiscal) damage was well on its way to being repaired (although other issues cropped up as a result - see Walkerton). Many people still blame Harris for the damage caused by the cuts he instituted, but I believe the goal was worth the cost. The issue is what has happened since.

Ontario is in such trouble because of subsequent governments that have tried to spend their way into power.

I still think the Klein and Harris governments show that the general populace is willing to accept cuts to get the finances under control. People realize debts must be paid. But everyone also has their own special interests that they would like to see enhanced, and it is when a government tries to pander to too many of these interests that the trouble occurs.

Don't think that Alberta has the finances it does today simply because of sound management. yes, that is needed; but all that black stuff that has been the lifeblood of the world for the last 60 years has sure give Alberta an advantage.

I agree 100% as we went through the same mess in BC with the NDP. But since there is no PC in BC (not sure why, has to do with the socreds, I believe), there was no one else to vote for; the greens in a resource rich province?? The marijuana party-only in BC. And Vancouver is too far left for the rest of the province to agree on a political platform. So that left the Liberals, even Vancouver had enough NDP. It's too bad though, a PC platform would be voted for in northern BC, but I don't think Vancouver would have any of it. A bit OT, I know, now back to you.....

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think it is fear, at least it is for me, the thought in this province (which probably is why the same party has been in power forever) is if one of those other parties gets into office, you will eventually be layed off and have to move your family to another country because of the specialized skill set that they have that is valuable here.

And there in lies the problem, because of this fear the population continues to vote in a party that has no other vision except to stay the course with oil and gas. The problem is the world economy will evolve beyond oil...will Alberta? Unless people take the plunge and vote in somebody who has some new ideas to diversify the economy, Alberta will turn into a wasteland. We have a young educated workforce who could make the shift easily if it was done smoothly and with vision.

I'm not saying that any of the current parties have these new ideas (and how sad is that) but the PC party is probably the most backward out of any of them. Staying the course might be good for the long-term, but I strongly believe that it is catastrophic for your children. I mean seriously, what is the PC's plan when oil dries up (or when somebody comes up with a cheaper/better alternative?)? Blame the Liberals?

[Ford Prefect]

Okay, I wanna know who the two NDPers are. They must be from another province. No self-respectin' Albertan would ever vote Communist.

[Slava]

Its always interesting to see how people make their decisions. I vote for the party not because I agree with all of their policies, but based on the direction I want things to go in general. I don't mean this to say that I think that the Liberal platform is better suited for the future; I mean to say that they won't win, but will make a good opposition party. I think that minority governments are the best...you get more done, and there are a lot of checks and balances that are in place as a result.

None of these guys deserve a mandate to implement all of their principles...that is where you get corruption and guys operating an old boys network full of pork barrell politics and favoritism.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Table 5

And there in lies the problem, because of this fear the population continues to vote in a party that has no other vision except to stay the course with oil and gas. The problem is the world economy will evolve beyond oil...will Alberta? Unless people take the plunge and vote in somebody who has some new ideas to diversify the economy, Alberta will turn into a wasteland. We have a young educated workforce who could make the shift easily if it was done smoothly and with vision.

I'm not saying that any of the current parties have these new ideas (and how sad is that) but the PC party is probably the most backward out of any of them. Staying the course might be good for the long-term, but I strongly believe that it is catastrophic for your children. I mean seriously, what is the PC's plan when oil dries up (or when somebody comes up with a cheaper/better alternative?)? Blame the Liberals?

That depends largely on your appraisal of private enterprise. If you believe that multi-billion dollar corporations are like greedy, short-sighted lemmings, and will suck the teet of oil till it runs dry, look confused and die out, laying off hundreds of thousands of people and generating no revenue... then you're right, the government has to be pro-active and have indepth plans and force the corporations to adapt with them.

If you believe that multi-billion dollar corporations have a strong survival instinct, and are doubtlessly aware of oil and gas declining in the mid to late 21st century... they are already planning for their future in alternative energy, and they'll doubtlessly need their skilled labour force and a stable and business friendly environment to do so. In that case, a government has to be active, but in a different way. The government has to be business-friendly. Encourage as much investment and diversification as possible. Reward cutting-edge technological advances in the patch, rather than upping tax. Save as much money as possible and invest it, so the dividends can help pay for rough years. Invest in expensive capital projects during downturns and refuse to compete in booms.

Alberta was already ranked 18th in the world as the best place to do oil and gas exploration. Saskatchewan was 15th. This was before the Royalty Review came out. Too much tax, too much red tape (mandatory native consultation, redundant regulatory bodies), too pro-farmer (all at the driller's expense). Making Alberta less attractive to do business is not going to help strengthen it for the future.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

If you believe that multi-billion dollar corporations have a strong survival instinct, and are doubtlessly aware of oil and gas declining in the mid to late 21st century... they are already planning for their future in alternative energy, and they'll doubtlessly need their skilled labour force to do so. In that case, a government has to be active, but in a different way. The government has to be business-friendly. Encourage as much investment and diversification as possible. Reward cutting-edge technological advances in the patch, rather than upping tax. Save as much money as possible and invest it, so the dividends can help pay for rough years. Invest in expensive capital projects during downturns and refuse to compete in booms.

Hey, I agree with all this. I think the government's role is to encourage these new possibilities...but it has to do it pro-actively, not just sit back and maybe let it be. Energy is clearly Alberta's meal ticket, but it can choose what type of energy that will be.

Thinking Green and Financial Success are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it will be the driving force for a lot of smart and successful companies. Hell, WALMART of all companies is taking steps to be a green leader, and realizing the benefits to it's bottom line. How much longer till our province takes the initiative.....and reaps the benefits?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Hey, I agree with all this. I think the government's role is to encourage these new possibilities...but it has to do it pro-actively, not just sit back and maybe let it be. Energy is clearly Alberta's meal ticket, but it can choose what type of energy that will be.

Thinking Green and Financial Success are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it will be the driving force for a lot of smart and successful companies. Hell, WALMART of all companies is taking steps to be a green leader, and realizing the benefits to it's bottom line. How much longer till our province takes the initiative.....and reaps the benefits?

I guess we're closer to the same page than I thought.

I've always felt its easier to attract flies with honey than vinegar. It seems like every Alberta political party thinks the opposite. Taxing the crap out of the patch, and forcing all these environment conditions onto an already overburdened and shockingly regulated (in everything... you'd be surprised) industry will not accomplish this. Parties need to promote these things by giving incentives and showing the positives of these actions, that many companies are already well aware of.

Damn, I just saw on CTV... my riding doesn't have a Green Party or a Wildrose Alliance MLA candidate. Jesus, if I would have known, I would have run for one of them. Now, it looks like I'm voting for Spoiled Ballot.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Slava

Its always interesting to see how people make their decisions. I vote for the party not because I agree with all of their policies, but based on the direction I want things to go in general. I don't mean this to say that I think that the Liberal platform is better suited for the future; I mean to say that they won't win, but will make a good opposition party. I think that minority governments are the best...you get more done, and there are a lot of checks and balances that are in place as a result.

None of these guys deserve a mandate to implement all of their principles...that is where you get corruption and guys operating an old boys network full of pork barrell politics and favoritism.

Your line of reasoning is the same as mine. I've been voting to try and elect an effective opposition party in this province since the mid-1980s. There's always a danger the pendulum will swing too far and the intended opposition party becomes a governing party, but if the last 20 years are any indication that's not a very grave concern. Right now, I think a minority PC government with a reasonably strong Liberal opposition is just what this province needs. It seems to be working nationally, so why not provincially as well. And that's why I'l likely vote Liberal, even though I don't ideologically agree with them.

[Bobblehead]

In my riding the PC candidate almost lost last election. I didn't see him do anything else this term, and his Liberal opposition knocked on my door 6 MONTHS AGO looking for support.

Hmmm

Current MLA - hear his name when he hosts his annual Stampede breakfast or is up for re-election.

Opponent - knocking on doors before an election is even close.

If my decision was simply at the local representative level, it would appear to be a slam dunk.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Your line of reasoning is the same as mine. I've been voting to try and elect an effective opposition party in this province since the mid-1980s. There's always a danger the pendulum will swing too far and the intended opposition party becomes a governing party, but if the last 20 years are any indication that's not a very grave concern. Right now, I think a minority PC government with a reasonably strong Liberal opposition is just what this province needs. It seems to be working nationally, so why not provincially as well. And that's why I'l likely vote Liberal, even though I don't ideologically agree with them.

I'd rather a Green opposition because they might be able to work some of their platform into government policy, that's why I'll likely vote Green again.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I guess we're closer to the same page than I thought.

well yeah, that's the thing, people see somebody standing up for environmental issues, and they automatically assume it's some hippie dippie who doesnt care about economics. That's the beauty though, I think the environment can and will be a money making machine (and this time not by gang raping the crap out of it).

And while i do think environmental standards have to be set on current energy companies to stem the negative tide, I'm very much for encouraging positive growth with incentives. I would give massive tax-breaks to companies with green initiatives to help foster this growth...give companies an offer that simply can't pass up.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'd rather a Green opposition because they might be able to work some of their platform into government policy, that's why I'll likely vote Green again.

Actually, the Green Party is my party of choice, and I always vote for them federally. However, for them to elect even one MLA in Alberta is a pipe dream at this point, so it's more important for me to see a meaningful opposition formed. Plus, I live and vote in a rural constituency, so the Green's chances here are non-existent. I have voted Green provincially on occasion, but only as a total protest vote. In this election there's some hope of electing an opposition so that's where my vote has to go. Plus, if the local Liberal candidate is who I think it is, he's an excellent candidate.

[Kaon]

It appears I'm stuck voting liberal if I want to protest the current PC government. Calgary-Hays only has a PC, Liberal and NDP candidate according to CFCN, so I don't have a lot of choice.

I wouldn't touch NDP with a 10ft pole, and I dislike Kevin Taft and what he wants for the province (I have no doubt he's a smart guy and a good leader, but he's totally out of touch with what Alberta needs imo).

So much for wasting my time reading party platforms over the weekend seeing as how none of them are running candidates in my riding.

[Resolute 14]

Well, its possible that other parties may yet nominate candidates in such ridings, but given I'm in Calgary-Hays as well, looks like I am definitely voting PC given the lack of an Alliance candidate to consider.

[Kaon]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Well, its possible that other parties may yet nominate candidates in such ridings, but given I'm in Calgary-Hays as well, looks like I am definitely voting PC given the lack of an Alliance candidate to consider.

Just to update for Hays:

Greens have nominations in process
Alliance does not list Hays in their 2008 candidate list (they may not keep nomination notifications up to date though)

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Should you be giving advise to Albertans, when you guys in Ontario voted in the NDP some time ago, and everyone, even the NDP were shocked. The NDP then proceeded to double Ontario's debt to a point where I believe it is now the largest debt for a non sovereign entity in the world.

Even though our electorate and politicians do stupid things at times, I don't believe we could ever be as foolish as those in Ontario.

Dont blame me for that debacle...I was still an Albertan then. In saying that, at least the people of Ontario have the cajones to do something different and oust a party that is corrupt, even if the taste of the alternate is still sour. Albertans are much like Ostriches...if their heads are stuck in the Oilsands then they cant see the problem!