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Eastern Girl · 02-02-2008, 12:38 PM

My moms car has crapped out on her and she's not sure why. It won't turn over. The few times that it does, it just sputters out after a couple seconds. She had this same problem a few months ago and she took it to a couple places to check it out, but no one knew what the problem was, they all said her car looked okay. As a last resort, one of the places replaced her fuses. That seemed to work for awhile. But now she's having the same issue again. She changed her battery, and it turned on once without issue. Now, it is just dead. No one seems to know what is wrong with it, as she has had it checked out again by the dealer, Canadian Tire and a couple other places. It's not a new car, but not terribly old either, couple years, I think.

I really want my mom to have her car. Without it, she's basically stranded.
So, any ideas on what it could be?

jammies · 02-02-2008, 12:40 PM

I'm not an official car guy, but did they check the starter motor? And do the lights come on in the car when you open the doors (ie - is the battery not dead)?

Eastern Girl · 02-02-2008, 12:50 PM

It's not the battery, as she just replaced it.

As for the start motor, she said everything was checked out by the mechanics, and her fiance seems to insist that it's not the starter.

GoinAllTheWay · 02-02-2008, 12:58 PM

It sounds electrical. Did they check the solenoid?

Eastern Girl · 02-02-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

It sounds electrical. Did they check the solenoid?

I couldn't honestly say, but is that something they would check during a diagnostic? cause she had the dealer and a seperate mechanic run one and they said everything looked okay.

jammies · 02-02-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

It's not the battery, as she just replaced it.

As for the start motor, she said everything was checked out by the mechanics, and her fiance seems to insist that it's not the starter.

Well, the mechanics didn't find anything, so I'm not sure I'd trust what they say on anything as far as "checking it out". If the battery is good (and I'd seriously ask her if the lights DO come on, as if the battery is known good and the lights don't come on, that points to problems in the electrical system, which is why I presume they tried replacing the fuses), then you look at either the electrical system or the starter motor.

Since you said it "sputters" but doesn't turn on, that sounds to me like the starter isn't getting enough power, which could be the solenoid as goinalltheway said. When you turn the car on, the ignition switch forces the solenoid to close a pair of contacts, which then allows current from the battery to juice up the starter motor, which then cranks the engine to start it. If the cable to the solenoid is corroded or bad, not enough power gets thru and you get the "clicking" sound or a short grinding sound as you describe. Or if the solenoid itself is gibbled, you might get the same thing. Or if the starter motor itself is bad, same. The purpose of the mechanic is to figure out which of them it is...

redforever · 02-02-2008, 01:19 PM

Our daughter had this problem. The battery posts needed a thorough cleaning.

Locke · 02-02-2008, 01:24 PM

Check for hookers.

It could be something as simple as the battery posts, but a mechanic should have noticed that.

The solenoid connection is a likely culprit.

Eastern Girl · 02-02-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammies

Well, the mechanics didn't find anything, so I'm not sure I'd trust what they say on anything as far as "checking it out". If the battery is good (and I'd seriously ask her if the lights DO come on, as if the battery is known good and the lights don't come on, that points to problems in the electrical system, which is why I presume they tried replacing the fuses), then you look at either the electrical system or the starter motor.

Since you said it "sputters" but doesn't turn on, that sounds to me like the starter isn't getting enough power, which could be the solenoid as goinalltheway said. When you turn the car on, the ignition switch forces the solenoid to close a pair of contacts, which then allows current from the battery to juice up the starter motor, which then cranks the engine to start it. If the cable to the solenoid is corroded or bad, not enough power gets thru and you get the "clicking" sound or a short grinding sound as you describe. Or if the solenoid itself is gibbled, you might get the same thing. Or if the starter motor itself is bad, same. The purpose of the mechanic is to figure out which of them it is...

The lights do come on. The battery is new.

She's taken it to a mechanic. Several, in fact, and they all said that everything looked okay, which is why this is so frustrating. She has had things replaced, at their suggestion, the last thing being her fuses, and then the car ran fine for a few months but the problem has resurfaced, worse than before. It turned over the one time without issue, then when she turned if off and tried it again, it wouldn't turn over.

Is the solenoid something they would check within a diagnostic?

Locke · 02-02-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

Is the solenoid something they would check within a diagnostic?

No, it gets missed a lot. The tricky thing with the solenoid is that if its a loose connection then it'll work sometimes and not others and seem very random.

Fozzie_DeBear · 02-02-2008, 01:41 PM

What kind of car is it? You may want to google Car Make+Model+year+starting trouble

and see if there is a particular issue with the model

jammies · 02-02-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

No, it gets missed a lot. The tricky thing with the solenoid is that if its a loose connection then it'll work sometimes and not others and seem very random.

Which is why a GOOD mechanic doesn't rely solely on what the diagnostics tell him - hell, *anyone* can hook up a diagnostic machine and go look up the code it tells you in a book.

If I were her, I'd take it back to one of the places she's already had work done, tell them it is NOT fixed yet and that she wants it permanently fixed, and that another run of the diagnostics is not sufficient trouble-shooting. They should be physically inspecting the cables, solenoid, ignition switch, and starter motor, and replacing any or all of these as necessary. Plus, she should tell them she is fine with the cost of parts, but not labour as it should already have been done.

But that's just me.

burn_this_city · 02-02-2008, 01:52 PM

Hooking a car up to a code reader usually doesnt accomplish anything.. especially if the car is more than a few years old.. As most other people mentioned its probably the starter relay/solenoid.. If not it could be a cap and rotor issue if the starter cranks but the car doesnt fire.. One way to test it, remove a spark plug wire from a cylinder and put a screw driver in the boot.. Have someone crank the car while another person holds the screwdriver (by the handle so you dont get shocked) in the boot.. If it sparks then you know its not an iginition issue... next thing check if the fuel pump coming on.. To do that, lay under the gas tank and have your friend roll the key forward, dont crank it, just roll it forward to the run position.. If you hear a hum coming from the tank it means the fuel pump isnt dead.. If all those things work and it still wont start.. get it towed to a mechanic because its obviously something else..

ricosuave · 02-02-2008, 02:51 PM

what kind of car?

Eastern Girl · 02-02-2008, 03:08 PM

a pontiac alero, I believe.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, everyone.

GreatWhiteEbola · 02-02-2008, 03:12 PM

Pontiac with a potential electrical problem? Thats unheard of!

Battery OK

Possible ground fault. Shorting condition.

Does the car turn over, just not start? Is there a clicking sound heard under the hood when you are attempting to turn it over?

Possible fuel related issue? Fuel filter, injectors etc.

burn_this_city · 02-02-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

a pontiac alero, I believe.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, everyone.

If its an alero it has distributorless ignition.. You would have to check a few of the spark plug wires for to properly check for spark.. Usually its not the case on those cars, it should start but only run on 4 cylinders if its an ignition module.. It would be really rough sounding but still should kick over..

Ford Prefect · 02-02-2008, 05:06 PM

Since the car has been checked out by mechanics, I'll take a stab at an obscure cause for the probelm. A lot (most?) newer vehicles ... vehicles built since 2000 ... have a chip embedded in their keys that is necessary to start the car. If your mom has had a key cut by someone other than the dealer the key will open the doors, and it will even start the car, but the car will only run for a few seconds and stall. After a few attempts the ignition will go dead. If she hasn't had a third party cut a key, it's still possible the chip in the manufacturer's key is glitched and this would cause the same problems. I don't know if this is the problem, but figured I'd mention it as it kind of sounds like it's something obscure like this that's causing the trouble.

kdoir345 · 02-02-2008, 07:07 PM

so even when it does turn over it runs for a couple seconds then dies out? or does the starter just turn over and then stop.

And its definatley not a Pontiac Alero as there is no such car, Oldsmobile made the Alero

GreatWhiteEbola · 02-02-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdoir345

Oldsmobile made the Alero

I thought there was something odd about that...