Single Joint=20 Cigarettes And Huge Lung Cancer Risk: Researchers

[troutman]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I don't know... You seem like one of those dudes that comes off as all nice and harmless, but packs a mean punch. You were hucking those balls pretty far last week. I don't need my jaw broken...

Eh!, Wildwood b/c of the networking group?

Right, and a chance to win a ticket to Saturday's game.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Thor

The key is they are not making it illegal, just more difficult. Last time I checked people who smoke pot usually do so in their homes.

I explained in an earlier post just how difficult it would be to ban cigarettes altogether. What they are doing now is probably the next best option IMO.

It would be a solid idea to do the same for alcohol, but for some reason smoking is so evil and drinking is so cool.

Drinking is cool? We have laws against drinking and driving. Or laws about being drunk and disorderly in a public place.

You would rather have drug dealers, growers, and organized crime making billions of dollars and costing law enforcement countless 100's of millions on enforcing something 1/3 of Canada's population responsibly uses and has used for decades?

You would rather our government get into the business of selling yet another harmful product. Plus make them hypocrites in the eyes of some people for trying to regulate where and when they can use it while still collecting taxes off it.

The people most against legalization are the ones profiting from it being illegal, the criminals, crime organizations.. If it was legalized, which it should be; these people are the ones who suffer the most.

If legalised the government would regulate the product and make oodles of taxes from it. Do we want our govts promoting good heath or harnful habits?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

Do we want our govts promoting good heath or harnful habits?

There is a rather significant difference between "decriminalizing" and "promoting".

The funny thing about all this is that even though it's illegal, everyone who wants to do it is doing it anyway. Nobody is concerned about the law.

There are not people out there who would love to get high but don't because of the laws. In other words, the laws don't do anything. They don't stop anyone.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There is a rather significant difference between "decriminalizing" and "promoting".

The funny thing about all this is that even though it's illegal, everyone who wants to do it is doing it anyway. Nobody is concerned about the law.

There are not people out there who would love to get high but don't because of the laws. In other words, the laws don't do anything. They don't stop anyone.

I agree that people who want to do it, are going to do it, but you can't say that it doesn't stop anyone.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There is a rather significant difference between "decriminalizing" and "promoting".

If you legalise a product you are promoting it. You don't think the govt wouldn't get involved with regulating and the sale of the pot? Think of all the taxes they would be missing. Besides, they're going to need those tax dollars to treat users down the road.

[4X4]

Well, the law doesn't stop many people either. I remember a halloween night when I was 16, me and a few buddies were outside of a liquor store trying to get someone to boot for us. Instead, someone ratted and the cops showed up. (Didn't help that it was Stacy's Liquor Stop right behind District 6 cop shop)

Anyway, the cops made us empty our pockets and my buddy had an eighth on him. The cop turned the baggie upside down and ground it into the asphalt with his boot and they left.
Yes, we picked up what we could find and smoked a doobie while mocking the cop.
In retrospect, it was probably his way of saying "this stuff's no good, but if you really want it, pick it up off the ground".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Well, the law doesn't stop many people either.

Lets be honest. Those laws have changed drastically. I used to drink at the Ship & Anchor for lunch when I was 15 and in high school too.

If they thought no cops would walk in and that you wouldnt cause any trouble then it was all good and you could eat your lunch and drink beer in peace.

If it was super busy they might not let you in, because adults drink more than kids, and you're not legal anyways so what're you gonna do?

If a cop walked in, usually the worst punishment was a wag of the finger and you were asked to pay your bill and leave. If you were dumb enough to flash a fake you got a $500 ticket and a free ride.

Those laws now punish the establishment, the server and the patron much more harshly, and this situation no longer exists.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Dion

I explained in an earlier post just how difficult it would be to ban cigarettes altogether. What they are doing now is probably the next best option IMO.

Drinking is cool? We have laws against drinking and driving. Or laws about being drunk and disorderly in a public place.

But they don't go after the alcohol industry like tobacco, even with all the health effects and harm to society. I'm just pointing out, the government is just bowing to whats cool to hate.

You would rather our government get into the business of selling yet another harmful product. Plus make them hypocrites in the eyes of some people for trying to regulate where and when they can use it while still collecting taxes off it.

I definitely prefer that over criminals doing it and harming society with all that comes from the organized criminal activity. You did see what prohibition did for organized crime in the 30's right?

If legalised the government would regulate the product and make oodles of taxes from it. Do we want our govts promoting good heath or harnful habits?

I want government to stay out of people's lives, let adults make adult decisions about what they do to their own bodies. If the government allows people to drink, why should they forbid marijuana.

The government could take in millions if not hundreds of millions in taxes from the sale, which then they are free to use for healthcare, social programs, etc.. But you'd rather criminals have that money for guns, big houses, etc..

I'm for personal liberties, not government telling me what I can do in my own home as long as its not harming others.

You seem to support good decent people who do no harm to others being punished, fined, arrested and even incarcerated?

I just find great irony in thinking about the judge/lawyers going out for drinks after they put away a marijuana grower to jail for 5 years. Makes me cringe ever time

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

If you legalise a product you are promoting it.

Hot dogs, lumber and blue jeans are all legal but I don't see much government "promotion" of those things.

Making something legal does not mean the government is promoting it. It just doesn't. Unless you have an alternative definition of the word "promoting" than the common one.

As for using the tax dollars for "treating users down the road", isn't that a good thing? I mean we'll be paying for it anyway, so why not get a few bucks out of the industry? And with all that money we'll save on law enforcement and prisons we'll be way ahead.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Thor

But they don't go after the alcohol industry like tobacco, even with all the health effects and harm to society. I'm just pointing out, the government is just bowing to whats cool to hate.

I don't see it that way. Unless i'm abusing alcohol i'm not a danger to the person next to me in that bar. It's a lot different when some lights a cigarette and i have to breathe in that second hand smoke.

I definitely prefer that over criminals doing it and harming society with all that comes from the organized criminal activity. You did see what prohibition did for organized crime in the 30's right?

I'd prefer neither and support law enforcement in their efforts.

I want government to stay out of people's lives, let adults make adult decisions about what they do to their own bodies. If the government allows people to drink, why should they forbid marijuana.

I'm all for people making adult descions. I'd also like people to take responsibility for their heath when they choose to abuse their bodies, rather than expecting heath care to fix them later on.

The government could take in millions if not hundreds of millions in taxes from the sale, which then they are free to use for healthcare, social programs, etc..

You should hear the cry from the general public about those so call sin taxes. Ask a smoker how he feels and listen to his response. Be ready for an earful

But you'd rather criminals have that money for guns, big houses, etc..

Wrong assumption I'd prefer criminals didn't have that drug money.

I'm for personal liberties, not government telling me what I can do in my own home as long as its not harming others.

I'm all for that too.

You seem to support good decent people who do no harm to others being punished, fined, arrested and even incarcerated?

People make choices in life and have to live by them. If you choose to use an illegal product and get caught don't come crying to me.

I just find great irony in thinking about the judge/lawyers going out for drinks after they put away a marijuana grower to jail for 5 years. Makes me cringe ever time

I see no problem with that picture

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Hot dogs, lumber and blue jeans are all legal but I don't see much government "promotion" of those things.

Are we not talking about a drug that will need to be regulated.

Making something legal does not mean the government is promoting it. It just doesn't. Unless you have an alternative definition of the word "promoting" than the common one.

I was talking about a drug. I do understand that if it wasn't a drug the govt might not be involved with the promotion.

As for using the tax dollars for "treating users down the road", isn't that a good thing? I mean we'll be paying for it anyway, so why not get a few bucks out of the industry? And with all that money we'll save on law enforcement and prisons we'll be way ahead.

The tax dollars thing is a convenient excuse for people who willing choose to abuse their bodies. It's a point for example that smokers often point to justify their habit in regards to heath care costs. I lost my favourite uncle over the Christmas season to lung cancer. He abused his body with cigarettes for years and his family and loved ones were forced to watch him die a slow painful death. I'd rather the govt did something to promote good heath as opposed to leaglising another harmful product.

[simonsays]

So Dion, your stance is that because the smoke from marijuana is harmful it should remain illegal to use/trade/possess. And you would like people to stop smoking it because it might have an effect on the value of your health-care dollar?

And when given the choice between legalization/regulation/taxation and the black market you've picked option C) nobody is allowed to smoke pot anymore. Also, adults are allowed to choose what they may ingest in the privacy of their own homes so long as their choices don't have a negative impact on their health, which might then have an impact on your health-care dollar. Lastly, you have no sympathy for anyone who does anything illegal because they broke the law.

I didn't realize that the world still came in black & white.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Dion

Why legalise another product that's harmful to your health. It would only make the govt bigger hippocrates than they already are.

It doesn't make them hypocrites, it makes them illogical. What makes them hypocrites is that they allow people to use a more dangerous drug, yet prohibit the use of a less dangerous one because they claim it's too dangerous. It's like the government is saying guns are perfectly fine for everyone to own and use, but we won't allow you to use slingshots.

With health care costs spiraling out of control, legalizing another harmful product would put greater strain on our system. Educating the masses on how to better take care of themselves is a better option IMO.

I'm all for personal choice and all but what responsibilty for ones actions? The attitude seems to be , no problem, the health care system will be there when i need it.

What about the strain on our law enforcement, legal system, and prisons? The health care system is one industry. I just mentioned three that would see drastic immediate cuts. Heck legalizing marijuana could save us tax payers money.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

anytime you do anything illegal you are part of a bigger problem. there are what, 4 dead mounties in alberta that were killed at the hands of someone trying to protect a grow-op destined to those pot smokers who think they arent hurting anyone but themselves.

If it was legal then that wouldn't have happened.

you make it legal, then the price gets jacked up and taxed to death, you only just create a black market that will still continue the same activities that surround illegal drugs. lesser of two evils?

Yes you're right. Just like what has happened with the huge black markets for alcohol and tobacco. Someone call Kevin Costner to put a stop to Al Capone already!

[FlamesAddiction]

Putting anything in your lungs except for clean air is bad for you. The health risk to our lungs is no reason to justify making mj illegal. If it were, then you might as well make burning fossil fuels, camp fires, and driving down dirt roads illegal. In fact, dust from dirt roads is a very well know carcinogen (sp?).

Personally, I have no use for pot, but if people want to do it, then I'm fine with that.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

Are we not talking about a drug that will need to be regulated.

Food, textiles and forestry are all regulated by the government. What are you trying to get at here?

Originally Posted by Dion

I was talking about a drug. I do understand that if it wasn't a drug the govt might not be involved with the promotion.

What does this even mean?

What do you think "promotion" means? Molson promotes beer. Player's promotes cigarettes. Do you think the government is going to promote weed like they do their wares?

Originally Posted by Dion

The tax dollars thing is a convenient excuse for people who willing choose to abuse their bodies.

Saying it is a convenient excuse is a convenient excuse to avoid the subject.

People are going to smoke weed. Period. You aren't going to stop it and really, nobody even cares, so it shouldn't be illegal. But while we hang on to these laws that pretty much everyone just ignores, all that money pours into the hands of organized crime.

You appear to be fine with that. Some of us aren't.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by simonsays

So Dion, your stance is that because the smoke from marijuana is harmful it should remain illegal to use/trade/possess.

My stance is the govt shouldn't be legalising another harmful product.

And you would like people to stop smoking it because it might have an effect on the value of your health-care dollar?

People are free to smoke or abuse their body in anyway they see fit.

I'd also like people to take responsibility for their health when they willing choose to abuse their bodies.

And when given the choice between legalization/regulation/taxation and the black market you've picked option C) nobody is allowed to smoke pot anymore. Also, adults are allowed to choose what they may ingest in the privacy of their own homes so long as their choices don't have a negative impact on their health, which might then have an impact on your health-care dollar.

Lastly, you have no sympathy for anyone who does anything illegal because they broke the law.

Where did i say people aren't allowed to smoke pot? People are free to buy from any dealer if they want.

Yet somehow i'm supposed to feel sorry when someone breaks the law? What happened to personal responsibility? Or should we just blame others for problems?

I didn't realize that the world still came in black & white.

It isn't. You just choose to view my arguments that way.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm about 90% for the legalization of pot, but there are still some issues that bother me and won't let me go all for it.

The main issue is that if it were legalized, the people who would profit from it are the same lowlifes and gangsters that run the trafficing now (and most are also involved in much worse crimes). Do we really want to make these people legit wealthy business men? It would be like what happened after alcohol prohibition.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The main issue is that if it were legalized, the people who would profit from it are the same lowlifes and gangsters that run the trafficing now (and most are also involved in much worse crimes). Do we really want to make these people legit wealthy business men? It would be like what happened after alcohol prohibition.

Some lowlife thug on the street could not compete with big business that would immediately step in and start production. The tobacco companies already have the setup for marijuana production with their tobacco production.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The main issue is that if it were legalized, the people who would profit from it are the same lowlifes and gangsters that run the trafficing now (and most are also involved in much worse crimes).

I don't think so. Shoppers Drug Mart or the "weed version" of the liquor store will be responsible for what they sell and won't be buying product off some guy with a pit-bull and moldy grow-op house in Douglasdale.

They'd industrialize!