Single Joint=20 Cigarettes And Huge Lung Cancer Risk: Researchers

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

So many points, so little time...

On "safer" ways to ingest pot, if you are talking bong, it isn't safer. Putting it through water is not stopping the smoke from entering your system. If it DID, you wouldn't be getting your buzz. If you are talking brownies or the like, guess again. Recent article had a bunch of classmates/teacher going to the hospital as some nut decided they would bring in some home made brownies for their unsuspecting piers. Same shinguard, different pile.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Yes, you still get the high, but you're removing a lot of the other things that happen when you burn it.

On "natural" versus "hydroponic", WTF do you think is 99.9999% of the product being consumed? And for most hydro, chems are rare for good crops anyways.

I'm well aware of what's being consumed, the point was that the study didn't differentiate, and there likely is a large difference in the harmful side effects from one product to the other. The point needs to be made that not all pot is the same and has the same chemical composition, as such, it won' thave the same effects.

On pot/lungs versus booze/liver, your liver has an astounding ability to rebound from its processes. Your lungs do not.

Really? So why do they say that there's a point after quitting smoking that your lungs go back to the state they would be if you'd never smoked? ABUSE of either WILL hurt. Your liver does rebound, certainly. But after witnessing my grandfather drink himself to death, I can assure you there is a point in which your liver will no longer keep rebounding.

I have been there and done each since many of you were but a twinkle in your parents' eyes. Pot IS the bigger evil, don't fool yourselves.

My two brain cells worth.

Really? How often do you hear about people in a stoned rage beating their wives? If you're talking health concerns, being a chronic pot-head is probably as bad for you as being an alcoholic, sure. Maybe the affects on your physical health are worse, but I might argue that the effects on your mental health are worse if you're an alcoholic, and if we're talking cost to the system, alcholics cost more money.

I feel for you and the loss of your friends over pot and alcohol. However it's far easier to be a functioning pot head than it is to be a functioning alcoholic, and that's from MY experience. I lived it for years. My brother lives it. Hell, half the small town I grew up in lives it. Pot doesn't magnify the symptoms of depression the same way that alcohol does. Sure, every pothead I know doesn't live up to their potential, but that doesn't make them suicidal or intentionally harm other people the way that alcohol does.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Wasn't necessarily referring to you past the first line, there were plenty of other targets in this thread.

As for the last paragraph, I am simply refuting the consistant defense used by pot smokers that marijuana use is not only harmless, but doesn't hurt anyone beyond the user either. Complete and utter BS. Has nothing to do with legalization or criminalization. Completely irrelevant to me.

I'm fairly certain all the pot smokers I know would agree that pot does do harm, and it also has benefits. I would also say that most realize that it harms those around them as well, like any other smoke. I think the point that pot smokers like to make is that it is no better or worse for you that cigarettes and alcohol and yet both are legal. Legalizing it doesn't mean condoning it's usage. There's a huge difference.

[icecube]

Alcohol causes so many more problems than marijuana. For one Alcohol imo is the real gateway drug. When people go to the bar and get drunk they want to either mix it with ecstacy and kick it up a notch or they want to take coke and keep the party going all night. People who smoke weed get the munchies and go to bed. Not to mention the violence surrounding alcohol consumption at bars and clubs. I haven't even touched drunk driving fatalities yet. I can vouch for marijuana making you lazy and ruining short term memory but it's not as harmful as booze.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'm fairly certain all the pot smokers I know would agree that pot does do harm, and it also has benefits. I would also say that most realize that it harms those around them as well, like any other smoke. I think the point that pot smokers like to make is that it is no better or worse for you that cigarettes and alcohol and yet both are legal. Legalizing it doesn't mean condoning it's usage. There's a huge difference.

Once again, not my point. We weren't talking about legalization, we were talking about harm...harm to the users and harm to society. If you look back to the first page you will see several claims about both.

Why is it that whenever marijuana is being discussed, alcohol is always brought up? It's a horrible debate tactic. Instead of proving my point, I'll throw something else out there and scream hypocrisy. It's like a child using the ol' "Well she did it so why can't I?" argument.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Flameschick

If you want the freedom to make choices, then you have to assume full responsibility for the consequences. Leave the rest of us out of it. Perhaps if you are forced first-hand to realize the enormity of the financial cost to yourself of your actions, you might engage in healthier pursuits instead of boozing or smoking or toking. It's a cynical way of doing so, but a serious hit to the pocketbook might make someone think twice about doing drugs or boozing.

The same could be said about sexual promiscuity....

That's part of the reason I think MANY pot smokers would like pot legalized... so it could be taxed so they ARE paying for their own health care expenses. That's what the tax on cigarettes is for, that's what the tax on alcohol is for, that's why you have to insure your vehicle. All legal activities that can kill. In essence, we DO pay for it. Assuming a lifetime of smoking gives me lung cancer, I'll have spent 3/4 of every pack of cigarettes paying for my own treatment.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Once again, not my point. We weren't talking about legalization, we were talking about harm...harm to the users and harm to society. If you look back to the first page you will see several claims about both.

Why is it that whenever marijuana is being discussed, alcohol is always brought up? It's a horrible debate tactic. Instead of proving my point, I'll throw something else out there and scream hypocrisy. It's like a child using the ol' "Well she did it so why can't I?" argument.

But if you're talking the HARM to society, how are you going to PAY for it... that's why we're talking legalization.

You aren't going to make people quit smoking pot. All you can do is minimize the effects. What's the best way to do that? Make the pot smokers pay for their own health care, etc. How do you do that? Tax it.

It's not hypocrisy, it's an example.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

The same could be said about sexual promiscuity....

That's part of the reason I think MANY pot smokers would like pot legalized... so it could be taxed so they ARE paying for their own health care expenses. That's what the tax on cigarettes is for, that's what the tax on alcohol is for, that's why you have to insure your vehicle. All legal activities that can kill. In essence, we DO pay for it. Assuming a lifetime of smoking gives me lung cancer, I'll have spent 3/4 of every pack of cigarettes paying for my own treatment.

You honestly believe that pot smokers (hell, people in general!) are that noble?

[Flash Walken]

I think anyone who doesn't live up to the potential that someone else sees in them should be tossed in the stockade immediately.

Same with Diabetics who consume caffeine.

If I don't know what's good for you, then no one does.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by FireFly

First of all, learn to spell. There's nothing like being in an argument with someone who only spells half their words correctly.

Secondly, wtf are you talking about? Let's recap, shall we?

The doctors told my sister to smoke MORE POT because it would PROLONG her life. What part of that isn't a health benefit? It's the lesser of two evils? Quick death vs slower death? I suppose if you want to look at it that way...

Thirdly, I just wanted to put a thirdly in to show you how it's supposed to be done...

Oh nice, because you can't debate you attack my spelling, nice work bud. FYI, I am posting from my laptop because I am at work it is a pretty damn slow machine not to mention I am going back and forth between work and posting, so if I miss spell a word here or there and miss it, oh friggen well.

As for your sister, you said the doctor told her to smoke pot instead of using morphine, assuming to control pain. Morphine is bad, pot is bad, morphine is worst than pot and can control pain therefor use pot instead of morphine. Smoking pot is not prolonging her life it is making it more bearable to live.

As for you little thridly remark....hahaha.....so funny, especially after I acknowledged my original mistake......oh you are so funny.

This was a pretty decent thread until your above comments.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

But if you're talking the HARM to society, how are you going to PAY for it... that's why we're talking legalization.

You aren't going to make people quit smoking pot. All you can do is minimize the effects. What's the best way to do that? Make the pot smokers pay for their own health care, etc. How do you do that? Tax it.

It's not hypocrisy, it's an example.

Again, I wasn't arguing legalization!!!

Good lord, we're talking harm and all people can say is:

1. pot doesn't harm society the way alchol, heroin, crack, meth et al do
2. pot is not as harmful to a person as booze

that's it!

POT HARMS PEOPLE.

Just freaking admit it! A few in this thread including you have....most refuse to.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

You honestly believe that pot smokers (hell, people in general!) are that noble?

Well, what other benefit is there? Make it more readily available? It's readily available now. It would make it harder for kids to get, in theory. It would control the use of it, in theory. I'm not sure it would be any cheaper than it is right now... why else? To get rid of the stigma? haven't 50% of Canadians tried it at one point or another? Don't 25% of Canadians partake in it on a fairly regular basis? Is there really a stigma anymore? What other reasons are there?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Again, I wasn't arguing legalization!!!

Good lord, we're talking harm and all people can say is:

1. pot doesn't harm society the way alchol, heroin, crack, meth et al do
2. pot is not as harmful to a person as booze

that's it!

POT HARMS PEOPLE.

Just freaking admit it! A few in this thread including you have....most refuse to.

About as harmful as staying inside while my neighbours put down asphalt in their driveway.

Don't see what your point is.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Well, what other benefit is there? Make it more readily available? It's readily available now. It would make it harder for kids to get, in theory. It would control the use of it, in theory. I'm not sure it would be any cheaper than it is right now... why else? To get rid of the stigma? haven't 50% of Canadians tried it at one point or another? Don't 25% of Canadians partake in it on a fairly regular basis? Is there really a stigma anymore? What other reasons are there?

To avoid jailtime, or at least the risk of it. That's it. Nothing more.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

About as harmful as staying inside while my neighbours put down asphalt in their driveway.

Don't see what your point is.

Maybe you've just made my point.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Again, I wasn't arguing legalization!!!

Good lord, we're talking harm and all people can say is:

1. pot doesn't harm society the way alchol, heroin, crack, meth et al do
2. pot is not as harmful to a person as booze

that's it!

POT HARMS PEOPLE.

Just freaking admit it! A few in this thread including you have....most refuse to.

1. It doesn't.
2. It isn't.

Yes it does. You get no argument from me, why are you arguing then? Who are these pot smokers you are talking about that don't think it harms people at all? I've never met one...

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

To avoid jailtime, or at least the risk of it. That's it. Nothing more.

Please. That's a rather pessimistic view of society. I think more would actually think pot would be cheaper if it was legal (it likely would be) and that's the reason they want it legal. Perhaps it's just a positive benefit? I mean really, these are potheads we're talking about... they don't necessarily think that deeply about anything.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

1. It doesn't.
2. It isn't.

Yes it does. You get no argument from me, why are you arguing then? Who are these pot smokers you are talking about that don't think it harms people at all? I've never met one...

Re-read the thread.

And again you prove my point. Unreal.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Maybe you've just made my point.

That the health problems associated with it's consumption are negligible at best and an inconvenience at worst?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by FireFly

That's part of the reason I think MANY pot smokers would like pot legalized... so it could be taxed so they ARE paying for their own health care expenses. .

What are you waiting for? Write a cheque to the government now, they will take your money, it doesn't have to be legalized.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Re-read the thread.

And again you prove my point. Unreal.

Ummmm so what's your point? jk