Lots of room on the right of the Tories

[Kjesse]

Looks like you "won" your position! I don't know whether congratulations or sympathy are in order

j/k gratz..... I guess we'll see where this goes.

The thread exposing Chandler's slate of executive hopefuls over on Project Alberta was hilarious. That guy is such a divisive individual, I really get a kick out of watching what he does. He is so hypocritcal. I think he's dangerous to any political party he touches.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by moon

There are still plenty of Albertans that support socially right wing polices. Even some that go further to the right than the current PC view.

I think the whole "Alberta moving to the left" crap is a little overblown.

Despite the influx of new voters, a Premier who was basically a lame duck leader and did numerous things to piss off and alienate voters and no real possible successor in site the Tories kicked the crap out of the other two major parties, if they can be considered major or even parties, in the province.

Federally the province overwhelmingly supports the major right wing party, electing them in 28 of 28 ridings in the last election.

It doesn't even address the fact that really the provincial, and Federal liberals, are hardly a left wing leaning party anymore and any move to support them should not be looked at as a ideological shift in the province.

I don't even know where to start! Fact is that there were a huge amount of people who voted for someone other than the Tories in both the last provincial and federal elections. I would not consider it "overwhelming" support just because the ridings are all won by the same party...I call that electoral distortion.

The ideological shift in the province will likely be more evident after this coming election. As you may be aware, the Liberals will likely win both seats in your home city, as well as post gains in both Calgary and Edmonton. The Green Party was a non-factor ten years ago but now is clearly established as a protest vote, and oftentimes finishes third in ridings...clearly the times are changing more than you care to acknowledge!

[Hemi-Cuda]

Alberta doesn't need to get any more right wing, the province is still recovering from Klein's privatization spree

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Alberta doesn't need to get any more right wing, the province is still recovering from Klein's privatization spree

Recovering? What service that was privatized do you think should not have been?

[Thunderball]

Its not the privatization spree, its Ralph and Company failing Economics and budgeting like Oil was and would forever be worthless that we're still recovering from. But, we as society asked for it... so we're to blame too.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Recovering? What service that was privatized do you think should not have been?

well auto insurance for one. funny how after Klein proudly proclaimed that Albertans would save so much money after insurance was privatized, the government had to step right back in after the insurance companies started price gouging their customers

maybe i'm biased though, as i come from BC and all registration/insurance issues are handed through ICBC. but only having to go to one place for everything and paying a lot less than what i am now seems like an advantage to me

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Looks like you "won" your position! I don't know whether congratulations or sympathy are in order

j/k gratz..... I guess we'll see where this goes.

Thank you.
One day of rest and a bit of drinking at Flames Central tomorrow (ok, maybe it will be a lot ).....
then we are off and running. Monday we start of whirlwind tour of townhall meetings around the province....

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

well auto insurance for one. funny how after Klein proudly proclaimed that Albertans would save so much money after insurance was privatized, the government had to step right back in after the insurance companies started price gouging their customers

Huh ? To the best of my knowledge; Alberta has never had "government auto insurance".

maybe i'm biased though, as i come from BC and all registration/insurance issues are handed through ICBC. but only having to go to one place for everything and paying a lot less than what i am now seems like an advantage to me

Which every resident subsidizes by paying income tax.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Huh ? To the best of my knowledge; Alberta has never had "government auto insurance".



Which every resident subsidizes by paying income tax.

my bad, i confused the already private auto insurance with the Ralph Klein privatized utilities. but regardless both are bad, the consumer is promised the freedom of "choice" but in reality every choice they have is to pay more for the same service than before it was privatized

taking necessities of daily life and putting them into the hands of corporations whose only concern is to make a profit is a ridiculous ideology. it reminds me of when a few hundred years ago fire stations were owned by private individuals and would sooner allow a house to burn down before being paid up front for their services. we see a modern day version of this in the US with their medicare system and HMOs

[Kjesse]

As I recall, the PC's capped personal injury damages in accidents where there was no permanent or real serious injury... or something like that.

They did this promising lower insurance premiums. Low and behold, it didn't happen, so the Tories passed a law capping rates.

My own premiums are about the same as before, so I'm not sure what this whole exercise accomplished. It probably shifted wealth from the personal injury lawyers to the insurance company shareholders.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Delgar

As I recall, the PC's capped personal injury damages in accidents where there was no permanent or real serious injury... or something like that.

They did this promising lower insurance premiums. Low and behold, it didn't happen, so the Tories passed a law capping rates.

My own premiums are about the same as before, so I'm not sure what this whole exercise accomplished. It probably shifted wealth from the personal injury lawyers to the insurance company shareholders.

It was more to alleviate the ridiculous and obscene costs young people had to pay for basic car insurance which the government study had labelled as unrealistically high. People with full AMA training and a clean record were still being charged upwards of $5000 per year for basic PLPD on older vehicles (I know that for a fact, because Allstate quoted me $5000/yr for a 13 year old car back in 2001, I had no accidents, nor did my parents, and I had just completed the comprehensive driver training through AMA). There was actually a time that I was paying more insurance per year than the value of my car. For the 16-25 crowd, the average savings was huge. Since the rest of people were being charged at a relatively competitive rate, there was no serious impact. It came a little late to help me, seeing as I was already getting into better rates when it changed over. I still saved another $500/yr. when it switched.

Insurance companies still get to pillage people with bad driving records, but now they can't just be lazy and assume that every male aged 16-25 is going to get into a collision requiring at least one total write-off. They actually had to come up with an intelligent system to determine risk. It was actually one of the more intelligent things Klein did as Premier seeing as young people (especially men) tend to take entry level jobs, many that require access to a vehicle, and if they can't afford to drive a car, they aren't employable, exascerbating a pre-existing labour shortage.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

It was more to alleviate the ridiculous and obscene costs young people had to pay for basic car insurance which the government study had labelled as unrealistically high. People with full AMA training and a clean record were still being charged upwards of $5000 per year for basic PLPD on older vehicles (I know that for a fact, because Allstate quoted me $5000/yr for a 13 year old car back in 2001, I had no accidents, nor did my parents, and I had just completed the comprehensive driver training through AMA). There was actually a time that I was paying more insurance per year than the value of my car. For the 16-25 crowd, the average savings was huge. Since the rest of people were being charged at a relatively competitive rate, there was no serious impact. It came a little late to help me, seeing as I was already getting into better rates when it changed over. I still saved another $500/yr. when it switched.

Insurance companies still get to pillage people with bad driving records, but now they can't just be lazy and assume that every male aged 16-25 is going to get into a collision requiring at least one total write-off. They actually had to come up with an intelligent system to determine risk. It was actually one of the more intelligent things Klein did as Premier seeing as young people (especially men) tend to take entry level jobs, many that require access to a vehicle, and if they can't afford to drive a car, they aren't employable, exascerbating a pre-existing labour shortage.

when i was 16 and got my first car (an '88 Dodge Aries) it cost me $1200 a year to insure myself through ICBC. when i moved to Calgary for school, had i not been able to keep my BC insurance because of my student status i would have had to pay over $3500 for the same service. that's just lunacy

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

when i was 16 and got my first car (an '88 Dodge Aries) it cost me $1200 a year to insure myself through ICBC. when i moved to Calgary for school, had i not been able to keep my BC insurance because of my student status i would have had to pay over $3500 for the same service. that's just lunacy

Yeah, car insurance prices in Alberta are crazy.

Wish they could go down.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

when i was 16 and got my first car (an '88 Dodge Aries) it cost me $1200 a year to insure myself through ICBC. when i moved to Calgary for school, had i not been able to keep my BC insurance because of my student status i would have had to pay over $3500 for the same service. that's just lunacy

I found the exact opposite. I'm well over 25 and with a clean record. My truck insurance doubled and my motorcycle insurance tripled when I moved back to BC.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

my bad, i confused the already private auto insurance with the Ralph Klein privatized utilities. but regardless both are bad, the consumer is promised the freedom of "choice" but in reality every choice they have is to pay more for the same service than before it was privatized

Total bullcrap. "The same service"? "MORE than it was before"?

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

taking necessities of daily life and putting them into the hands of corporations whose only concern is to make a profit is a ridiculous ideology.

HAHAHA... And just exactly what business do you think the government is in?
Do you actually think that they're so altruistic that they are out there CARING about you instead of making money or getting re-elected? Dude, I've heard some whoppers , but this one takes it.

Go right ahead and put lots of things under government control. That way we can pay lots of taxes, but at least there's only one entity to complain about.
Instead of voting with our wallets, we can pay our taxes wait until next election. Because y'know, people that aren't making money care more about doing a good job than people that are.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by 4X4

HAHAHA... And just exactly what business do you think the government is in?
Do you actually think that they're so altruistic that they are out there CARING about you instead of making money or getting re-elected? Dude, I've heard some whoppers , but this one takes it.

The government "CARING about" citizens is kind of the point.

[4X4]

Right. Well, when one is elected, let me know.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Right. Well, when one is elected, let me know.

So should we give up?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

So should we give up?

No, we plug along. It's called pragmatism.

[4X4]

Rouge, pleasedon't tell me that you actually think that "the government" and the fine folks who work for them actually show up every morning caring about you..?? It's a job. Just like any other job. It's a well paying job that requires the winning of a popularity contest.

You know exactly what I'm saying to the poster that I originally quoted... (hemi?). I'm saying that I strongly disagree wioth the idea that the government somehow cares more than a corporation. If that is what you'd like to argue with me, then lets do it.
If you're trying to draw me into an argument about whether we should give up or not, then say so.