Ever heard of Horus?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Your missing the point.. How does something just magically exist?? How has something always been?? If god created everything, what of the universe beyond earth?? No mention ever made in the bible of other planets or galaxies?? Is he predominately concerned with earth?? What of the other billion plus stars?? Based on probability theres surely another planet capable of sustaining life.. Does he fly back and forth or just spread out amongst the trillions of celestial objects..? The most plausible explanation is usually the correct one.. Not one that relies on "faith" to explain the inexplicable..

I'm sorry I should have been clearer. When heaven is spoken of in the Bible it can mean one of three places. In Genesis1:1 it is speaking of the stars, galaxies, universe, ect. If you look down to Genesis 1:7-8 you will find the second Heaven which is the atmosphere. The third heaven is the abode of God. In second Corinthians 12:2 the Apostle Paul speaks of a man caught up into the third heaven. Also in Hebrews 1:2, the second verse I quoted it says he made the worlds; not just the world.

As far as God's concern for other worlds it doesn't tell us. God doesn't tell us how everything works. Why would He? As far as flying back and forth I think you underestimate God. The Bible said God spoke everything into existence. I don't think time or distance constrains Him.


Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Which is funny because Christians use the same argument when disputing the 'Big Bang' or other theories on how the universe began. "Well it couldn't just start on it's own. Someone or something HAD to have done it."

But the difference between creation and the big bang is evidence exists for the big bang but no evidences exists for creation.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth..." Gen 1:1

"... by whom also he made the worlds" Heb 2:2

Personally I don't believe that out of nothing came every thing that exists. I don't believe that from no chemicals came one chemical and that one chemical produced all the chemical compounds. I don't believe life sprang from no life and that from simple life comes all the complex life forms we know of.

you're contradicting yourself. you say that you don't believe that out of nothing came something, but at the same time say that god has always been. well by using your logic he HAD to have been created by something, as nothing can be created by pure chance. so who is the creator of god?

oh and as a sidenote, nothing invalidates your argument quicker than quoting the bible. we are Atheists, thus we believe the bible to be a work of pure fiction. why would quoting fantasy prove your point? i could start posting scriptures from The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy if you wish...

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

you're contradicting yourself. you say that you don't believe that out of nothing came something, but at the same time say that god has always been. well by using your logic he HAD to have been created by something, as nothing can be created by pure chance. so who is the creator of god?

If God has always been then He wasn't created. You can't grasp this yet you believe something came from nothing and then by chance got complex???

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

oh and as a sidenote, nothing invalidates your argument quicker than quoting the bible. we are Atheists, thus we believe the bible to be a work of pure fiction. why would quoting fantasy prove your point? i could start posting scriptures from The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy if you wish...

I realize that maintaining a closed mind takes effort and concentration but, try to follow along. I was asked what the Bible said or at least asked why the Bible didn't mention creation beyond this planet. I was merely providing an answer.

[underGRADFlame]

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

If God has always been then He wasn't created. You can't grasp this yet you believe something came from nothing and then by chance got complex???

you say that nothing can happen by chance, that everything HAS to have a creator. why is god exempt from this? why does he get to just "be", but the universe and everything in it needs a creation explanation other than a spontaneous big bang?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I realize that maintaining a closed mind takes effort and concentration but, try to follow along.

Just an observation, but you are far snarkier than most participants when it comes to these "discussions". Some of us (me) have an excuse -- I'm a heathen. But aren't you supposed to be, you know, nice? Spread the message, save souls, convert the non-believer and all that?

You claim to know a lot about Jesus -- where in the writings does he counsel his followers to be rude and condescending to people who question these rather wild claims? Chapter and verse please.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You claim to know a lot about Jesus -- where in the writings does he counsel his followers to be rude and condescending to people who question these rather wild claims? Chapter and verse please.

You probably already know this, but Jesus was hardly the poster boy for tact. He did call the Pharisees a brood of vipers, and white-washed tombs full of dead bones. He also claimed that he had come not to bring peace, but the sword, and that because of him, fathers would turn against sons, and mothers against daughters. When dispatching his followers on their mission to proclaim the Kingdom of God, they were instructed to kick the dust from their sandals behind them when rejected. I suppose, based on this, that CB is well within his rights in his less than cordial approach.

...Mind you, his "gospel" and that of Jesus are probably significantly at odds.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You probably already know this, but Jesus was hardly the poster boy for tact. He did call the Pharisees a brood of vipers, and white-washed tombs full of dead bones. He also claimed that he had come not to bring peace, but the sword, and that because of him, fathers would turn against sons, and mothers against daughters. When dispatching his followers on their mission to proclaim the Kingdom of God, they were instructed to kick the dust from their sandals behind them when rejected. I suppose, based on this, that CB is well within his rights in his less than cordial approach.

...Mind you, his "gospel" and that of Jesus are probably significantly at odds.

Bwaha. Well, I didn't really know it. That's certainly different than the rep they give him in the mainstream, what with this Prince of Peace business and all that. Of course those are the same people that always paint him up to look like an Irishman, so I should have known better than to trust them.

[blankall]

I've never really understood why Aethiests persist on arguing there point to religious people or vice versa. The whole idea of faith is that it can never be proven or disproven. Hence why they call it faith. There can never be an argument based on logic that will either prove or disprove the existence of God.

As for the similarities between religions, Penn and Teller put it best. Humans just aren't that creative. We all came up w/ similar ideas, because we all perceive the world the same in some basic and fundamental ways. No matter where a human lives they will always share some common experience. Need for food, shelter, etc. We also all have similar fears, perceptions, and aspirations engrained w/in us.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've never really understood why Aethiests persist on arguing there point to religious people or vice versa. The whole idea of faith is that it can never be proven or disproven. Hence why they call it faith. There can never be an argument based on logic that will either prove or disprove the existence of God.

I can't of course speak for all atheists but it usually only gets brought up when someone of faith makes a claim about it being beyond faith. There are many people out there who believe they can prove a gods existence, and atheists and skeptics are here to keep them grounded in the reality of science and logic. If people of faith would keep it in the realm of faith and not have it spill over into science and logic you wouldn't hear anything from this atheist. But that's not the case these days.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I can't of course speak for all atheists but it usually only gets brought up when someone of faith makes a claim about it being beyond faith. There are many people out there who believe they can prove a gods existence, and atheists and skeptics are here to keep them grounded in the reality of science and logic. If people of faith would keep it in the realm of faith and not have it spill over into science and logic you wouldn't hear anything from this atheist. But that's not the case these days.

I think we're in a fight against the pseudo-sciences like ID.. Personally I believe so long as people fear death there will always be religion.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I think we're in a fight against the pseudo-sciences like ID..Personally I believe so long as people fear death there will always be religion.

I can't say I agree, or you are getting at something else. Wouldn't fear of death be an evolutionary trait?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I can't say I agree, or you are getting at something else. Wouldn't fear of death be an evolutionary trait?

I was agreeing with your sentiment about faith spilling into science, I went one step further stating that we should be against Intelligent design, which I consider to be the biggest farce touted by faith today. The second part was mostly a statement about why I think religion has so much traction and always will. It wasnt meant to agree or disagree..

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I think we're in a fight against the pseudo-sciences like ID.. Personally I believe so long as people fear death there will always be religion.

Actually the fight isn't as intense as people would like to believe. Christianity and religious fanaticism is slowly losing it's grip on Western civilization and the vocal minority is so desperate to stop this that they are screaming their final war cry louder than ever.

Religion will never die, but with the constant scientific advances and the unlimited access to information that people have it is becoming less relevant. The literalists are a dying breeed.

Most modern Christians use the Bible selectively as a guide on morality and not as a literal interpretation of the mythology. It would've saved humanity a lot of trouble if we had reached this point sooner.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by rubecube

...Most modern Christians use the Bible selectively as a guide on morality and not as a literal interpretation of the mythology. It would've saved humanity a lot of trouble if we had reached this point sooner.

Personally, I believe that Emmanuel Kant and John Locke bear much of the responsibility for this. Modern epistemology is a system of foundationalism that gave birth to the notion that our beliefs must have a "basis". Knowledge was pictured as a structure with one level built upon another, all supported by a reliable "foundation". The very notion that "foundations" must guide our intellectual explorations needs—in my humble opinion—to be addressed.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Personally, I believe that Emmanuel Kant and John Locke bear much of the responsibility for this. Modern epistemology is a system of foundationalism that gave birth to the notion that our beliefs must have a "basis". Knowledge was pictured as a structure with one level built upon another, all supported by a reliable "foundation". The very notion that "foundations" must guide our intellectual explorations needs—in my humble opinion—to be addressed.

Atheists are trying to build those foundations Textcritic!!!...

[worth]

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Actually the fight isn't as intense as people would like to believe. Christianity and religious fanaticism is slowly losing it's grip on Western civilization and the vocal minority is so desperate to stop this that they are screaming their final war cry louder than ever.

It does seem to be declining in popularity except in the US. Heck, there a couple states right now that are considering teaching creationism along side evolution.

I mean check out what Huckabee, the leading front runner for the Republic party said.

"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

[worth]

That quote is dangerous. Don't touch the constitution.