27. What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
Christopher Hitchens
32. You’re basically killing each other to see who’s got the better imaginary friend.
Richard Jeni
34. With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
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What of the other people who supposidly were resurrected from the dead...?? Example, Lazarus?? No one made him into the messiah after he rose from the grave.. I guess I shouldnt get into specifics but its difficult not too..
Also if god is all knowing, all seeing ect.. Who created him?? Also where did he gain this all knowing knowledge if none existed to begin with..
What of the other people who supposidly were resurrected from the dead...?? Example, Lazarus?? No one made him into the messiah after he rose from the grave.. I guess I shouldnt get into specifics but its difficult not too..
Lazarus couldn't die for anyones sin being as he was a sinner himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city
Also if god is all knowing, all seeing ect.. Who created him?? Also where did he gain this all knowing knowledge if none existed to begin with..
God is the self existing one. The great "I AM". He has always been. He is the source of knowledge. I mean what is knowlege but, an understanding of creation.
Last edited by Calgaryborn; 01-14-2008 at 05:05 PM.
Your missing the point.. How does something just magically exist?? How has something always been?? If god created everything, what of the universe beyond earth?? No mention ever made in the bible of other planets or galaxies?? Is he predominately concerned with earth?? What of the other billion plus stars?? Based on probability theres surely another planet capable of sustaining life.. Does he fly back and forth or just spread out amongst the trillions of celestial objects..? The most plausible explanation is usually the correct one.. Not one that relies on "faith" to explain the inexplicable..
Your missing the point.. How does something just magically exist?? How has something always been??
Which is funny because Christians use the same argument when disputing the 'Big Bang' or other theories on how the universe began. "Well it couldn't just start on it's own. Someone or something HAD to have done it."
Your missing the point.. How does something just magically exist?? How has something always been?? If god created everything, what of the universe beyond earth?? No mention ever made in the bible of other planets or galaxies?? Is he predominately concerned with earth?? What of the other billion plus stars?? Based on probability theres surely another planet capable of sustaining life.. Does he fly back and forth or just spread out amongst the trillions of celestial objects..? The most plausible explanation is usually the correct one.. Not one that relies on "faith" to explain the inexplicable..
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth..." Gen 1:1
"... by whom also he made the worlds" Heb 2:2
Personally I don't believe that out of nothing came every thing that exists. I don't believe that from no chemicals came one chemical and that one chemical produced all the chemical compounds. I don't believe life sprang from no life and that from simple life comes all the complex life forms we know of.
For those not familiar with the experiment, I highly suggest checking out the Miller-Urey experiment which managed to show how organic compounds emerged from inorganic environments in the early stages of the earth.
I don't understand how people can believe that it's much simpler that a higher being created everything... thats immensely more complicated because it demands that higher being was created by something EVEN MORE complex.
Evolution asserts organic life has evolved from the simplest forms of life into complex ones. I don't see how this can be anything BUT obvious.
Please don't attempt to argue against me by quoting scripture. That proves nothing, and its laughable that some people think it does act as a reliable source on anything science related.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth..." Gen 1:1
"... by whom also he made the worlds" Heb 2:2
Personally I don't believe that out of nothing came every thing that exists. I don't believe that from no chemicals came one chemical and that one chemical produced all the chemical compounds. I don't believe life sprang from no life and that from simple life comes all the complex life forms we know of.
Soooo.. From what I gather you don't really believe that everything just appeared.. Which would lead me to believe you don't entirely put trust in creation.. But you believe in Intelligent Design?? You should check out the burgess shale.. Its in the rockies between Alberta and BC.. There are fossils there that prove fairly conclusively where life as we see it today came from.. http://www.burgess-shale.bc.ca/
It provides a correct view of who we are: We are fallen creatures. You and I and the rest of humanity are sinners. Left alone there will never be a perfect society because of who we are. There is much finger pointing at God on this site because of all the suffering in this world but, it is man who has caused and is causing the suffering here. People don't have food or housing that will withstand the weather because we neglect their well being and even exploit the poor in places like China and India. We have Armies because if we didn't we would be overrun by other nations and destroyed. We have police because we have tendencies towards dishonesty and violence. You and I might live good lives by our standards but, we do so by controlling our impulses. Neither you or I could live up to God's standards as revealed in scriptures.
God is the only God. There is only one God. There is no other. He has revealed himself in three personages: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are all revealed as individuals and as being the same person. This is a mystery but, not anymore than the fact that God is everywhere or that God is a Spirit. God created the world alone. God destroyed the world with a flood because of the violence of mankind. God hates sin and will judge sinners. God loves mankind despite ourselves and devised a plan for our redemption.
Redemption means payment for a debt. You see God's righteousness demanded a payment for our sin. That payment was death.
Man was created with an eternal soul so death never means the end. Death means separation. Physical death separates you from your body and this earthy realm. Spiritual death separates you from God. God sent His Son to fulfill the requirements of His justice. Jesus Christ took on the form of a man and allowed himself to die in our place. As Jesus hung upon that cross for the first and only time ever there was a separation between him and God the Father. God let a part of Himself die rather than be separated from you or I eternally. Being God death could not keep Him. Jesus as the Creator was life. After rising from the dead He remained in a physical form for 40 days on this earth. He could be touched, He ate, He spoke. On one occasion He spoke to 500 people. At the end of the 40 days he commissioned the first church one last time to spread the news of his redemption to the world.
The Bible says that: whosoever recieved Him to them gave he power to become the sons of God; even to them that believe on His name. In other words the payment is there and your relationship with God will be restore if you want that relationship.
The most familiar verse in the world is John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son that whosoever believeth in
him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus wasn't finished speaking there. His next three verses were equally as revealing: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotton Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into this world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jesus Christ is not a continuation of some ancient myths. He is real and He couldn't have done more to prove who he was and his victory over death. There is no one like Him.
With my sincere apologies to Azure...
(1) God respects our free will so much that he allows non-believers to do their own thing for eternity in hell. (2) God loved us so much that he forgave our sins by punishing Jesus instead of sinners.
Christianity can be summarized as the worship of a saviour-God who washes away our worries and deadly sins in the blood he shed on our behalf. But it’s clear that some people’s particular sins far outnumber those of other people. The genius of Paul was in conceiving universal sin, giving everyone without exception a necessary reason to pay special attention to Jesus’ death.
Commitment to much of the New Testament and especially Paul’s writings leads to the belief that fundamentally the human species is worthless, depraved, incompetent, infinitely guilty and deserving of ultimate condemnation.
If the Christian God is the only God, over half the world is wrong in their choice(s) or lack thereof. Isnt that arogance on behalf of those who choose this direction? What of the millions or billions who have never heard of your God? Are they doomed forever? Can they choose to check the I believe box when they get to the pearly gates? If they can, are we allowed dibs?
Nations with the greatest amount of suffering have the greatest increase of evangelical Christianity. Funny that?
Jesus Christ is pure fiction...perhaps the greatest scam ever played on mankind.
His existence as a man is being more and more seriously questioned. Some of the ablest scholars of the world deny that he ever lived at all. Christianity is today the greatest enemy of knowledge, of freedom, of social and industrial improvement, and of the genuine brotherhood of mankind.
Whether Christ did, or did not live, has nothing at all to do with what the churches teach, or with what we believe, It is wholly a matter of evidence. It is a question of science. The question is -- what does history say? And that question must be settled in the court of historical criticism. If the thinking world is to hold to the position that Christ was a real character, there must be sufficient evidence to warrant that belief. If no evidence for his existence can be found; if history returns the verdict that his name is not inscribed upon her scroll, if it be found that his story was created by art and ingenuity, like the stories of fictitious heroes, he will have to take his place with the host of other demigods whose fancied lives and deeds make up the mythology of the world.
For anybody who even remotely thinks that Intelligent Design/Creationism (yes, they are the same thing, just renamed in an attempt to avoid rejection from classrooms) is scientific, I strongly urge you to watch this fantastic documentary about the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School Districttrials.
It was a PBS Nova documentary called Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial
Really fascinating, and I recommend anybody remotely interested in the subject to check it out.
It does an excellent job to show the real motivations behind the Creationism/ID movements as well as the questionable/sneaky methods used to try and bring some credibility to this scientific absurdity.
For anybody who even remotely thinks that Intelligent Design/Creationism (yes, they are the same thing, just renamed in an attempt to avoid rejection from classrooms) is scientific, I strongly urge you to watch this fantastic documentary about the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School Districttrials.
It was a PBS Nova documentary called Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial
Really fascinating, and I recommend anybody remotely interested in the subject to check it out.
It does an excellent job to show the real motivations behind the Creationism/ID movements as well as the questionable/sneaky methods used to try and bring some credibility to this scientific absurdity.
