Landover Baptist Pastor Preaches To Atheists

[photon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Also, I seem to get a sense throughout this thread, that although many use the term religion, they are actually meaning Christianity specifically as is evidenced throughout.

Only because that's what most people posting here would be familiar with. An atheist or agnostic is equally so about regardless of who's God it is I would think

I think if one is to discount one religion in the name of "there is no proof of god", then one should discount them all.......no?

Very true.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Again, none of it was false.

Their information and writings were based more on the physical, everyday life of Jesus Christ, rather than his teachings, and spiritual side.

THAT is why those writings weren't put into the Bible.

Sorry to reply twice, but here's a course I listened to recently on the topic of canonization and such:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursede...2.aspx?cid=656

There are torrents out there of it, though of course I recommend supporting the author.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by peter12

I'm also guessing that if you asked a lot of the poor and disadvantaged, they wouldn't take too kindly to you calling them weak or pathetic.

Where did i say pathetic? and what does poor and disadvantaged have to do with religion?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by T@T

Where did i say pathetic? and what does poor and disadvantaged have to do with religion?

Isn't it a "crutch for the weak"? It would follow logically that this would include a lot of the third world, which is still predominantly religious.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by photon

"Non-religion" is the 3rd largest religion in the world. So much for that part of your world view.

Non-religious does not equal Atheist. There are many who don't believe in any religion because they are indifferent or aren't sure.

Originally Posted by photon

Where have I EVER said I was an atheist? EVER? You are completely willing to assume so, classify me in your world view, and launch the attack. That's a pretty good example of intolerance isn't it?

Perhaps you've never said you were an Atheist. I am having more than one conversation at a time here. Makes it hard to remember who said what. I'm not sure how that would constitute an example of intolerance but, if you remember I've already acknowledged that I'm intolerant.[/quote]

Originally Posted by photon

Show me a Christian website that doesn't attack sin. What's the point? What's wrong with attacking any religious belief?

1. World Vision(and there are many more just like it)

2. My point is the breath and scope of Christianity goes beyond merely attacking other belief systems. One could find numerous examples of sites that promote Christian beliefs without even addressing other belief systems. My point is that unlike Christianity Atheism is a one trick pony. Attack is central to its existence as evidenced by the content that is found on there web sites.

Originally Posted by photon

I could say hatred of Islam is a preoccupation of Christianity since all Christians think Islam is the path to darkness then right?

Nope. What is wrong with Islam isn't the overwhelming theme of Christian thought and literature.

Originally Posted by photon

Some people think Christianity is good for people and they think atheism is bad for people. They think this strongly enough that they do something about it. Some try to convert the atheists, some speak out against atheism, some write about the pitfalls of atheism, some of this goes on websites. You are doing this right now. Most do none of this, most simply go about their lives living their life.

Some people think Atheism is good for people and they think religion is bad for people. They think this strongly enough that they do something about it. Some try to deconvert the religious, some speak out against religion, some write about the pitfalls of religion, some of this goes on websites. Others are doing this right now in this thread. Most do none of this, most simply go about their lives living their life.

So what you are trying to say is that the first group of some people is smaller than the second, so that makes what the second does intolerant but the first is tolerant? Is that about it?

What started this dialogue was the characterization of Christianity as intolerant and therefore wrong by some of the Atheists on this site. I contend that Atheism is based on intolerance because it is found in all its conversation. Christianity on the other hand, does more than merely call out other belief systems.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by peter12

Isn't it a "crutch for the weak"? It would follow logically that this would include a lot of the third world, which is still predominantly religious.

In no way would i treat people from 3rd world countrys as pathetic!

But you would have to presume they are predominantly religious because they aren't educated as much as we are, therefore don't really know any different choices.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by T@T

In know way would i treat people from 3rd world countrys as pathetic!

But you would have to presume they are predominantly religious because they aren't educated as much as we are, therefore don't really know any different choices.

But you labeled religion as a crutch for the weak. Are you suggesting that religious people are incapable of standing on their own? Are you suggesting that your few years of education somehow make you a stronger person?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Cmon CalgaryBorn...do you seriously buy this? Do you sincerely buy that right and wrong started with Jesus and Christianity?
How about you read a book that doesnt start with a B and end with an E.
Try the Code of Hammurabi...written 1780 BC.

Heres others:
Thou shall love they neighbor as thyself (Leviticus 19:18, Judaism)
Hurt not others with that which pains yourself (Udanavarga 5:18, Buddhism)
What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others (Analects, Confucianism)

Chrisitianity and Judaism KNEW of Babylonian law(s) and incorporated large parts into their traditions and verses.
Do you think that before Jesus (IF he ever lived) all people were immoral and never had codes to live by? Do you think up to the minute Jesus said those words people didnt realize that if they did good things good things might happen to them?


The real facts are..Christianity stole large parts of their doctrine from other religions preceding them.

Try to keep up with the conversation. We were talking about influences on our society and our own personal sense of morality. Last I checked the Bible was still the all time best seller in both Canada and the USA.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by peter12

But you labeled religion as a crutch for the weak. Are you suggesting that religious people are incapable of standing on their own? Are you suggesting that your few years of education somehow make you a stronger person?

Yes because i have seen it first hand, a fellow i grew up with beat his wife and kids at least once a week but it was OK because he went to the Priest and said "forgive me father for i have sinned"

I'm sure glad the Law didn't forgive him.

Religion is cr@p on a stick, it has caused every war known to man and is directly responsible for most of world suffering.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Non-religious does not equal Atheist. There are many who don't believe in any religion because they are indifferent or aren't sure.



Perhaps you've never said you were an Atheist. I am having more than one conversation at a time here. Makes it hard to remember who said what. I'm not sure how that would constitute an example of intolerance but, if you remember I've already acknowledged that I'm intolerant.

1. World Vision(and there are many more just like it)

2. My point is the breath and scope of Christianity goes beyond merely attacking other belief systems. One could find numerous examples of sites that promote Christian beliefs without even addressing other belief systems. My point is that unlike Christianity Atheism is a one trick pony. Attack is central to its existence as evidenced by the content that is found on there web sites.



Nope. What is wrong with Islam isn't the overwhelming theme of Christian thought and literature.



What started this dialogue was the characterization of Christianity as intolerant and therefore wrong by some of the Atheists on this site. I contend that Atheism is based on intolerance because it is found in all its conversation. Christianity on the other hand, does more than merely call out other belief systems.

No we contend that Christianity lies about many of its myths. We didnt suggest it was intolerant, although Im sure we could dig up a few tidbits if you like....such as:

Jesus' disciples call for mass-murder of villagers: Jesus' teachings were rejected by the inhabitants of a village in Samaria. His disciples asked that he engage in black magic, and exterminate the people of the village by issuing a curse. Jesus refused to do it, and simply moved on to the next village.
Luke 9:52-56: "...they did not receive him...And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

Jesus calls for the murder of those who do not follow him: Luke 10:27 says: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Persons who reject the gospel will be condemned.
John 12:48 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

Paul devalues all religious faith groups other than his own. He wrote that Gentiles worship devils. In modern terms, they are Satanists.
1 Corinthians 10:20-21 "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils."

Unorthodox Christians to be cursed: Paul curses any Christian preachers who deviate from his teaching.
Galatians 1:9 "As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Yes, but if that authority subscribes to the same things that you aspire to in your first paragraph, and in the end, accomplishes the same thing whether by fear or otherwise, then what's the difference?

Do you not see the benefit of having a moral code with which you can periodically recalibrate your behavior towards others?

In fact, I don't think we disagree much on this. It would be foolish to discount entirely the influence of Christianity on my moral beliefs. The influence is very deep--but so is the influence of the enlightenment, secular humanism, law, science, philosophy (from Hegel to Baudrillard) and any number of other sources of truth that I use as yardsticks. The point I'm making is, I guess, an advocacy of materialism: my experience of these things makes me a good moral and ethical judge. I'm confident in using it without needing to believe in an all-powerful being who will punish me if I don't.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Try to keep up with the conversation. We were talking about influences on our society and our own personal sense of morality. Last I checked the Bible was still the all time best seller in both Canada and the USA.

Maybe your bible is the best "given away" book in Canada and the USA.

http://www.caderbooks.com/bestintro.html

your words CBagain.

Do you not believe your sense of right and wrong and that of our society has been influenced by Christianity? I mean where do we get our sense of justice? I think we are born with a conscience but, environment must play a role or all society and all religions would have the same standards.

Oh and this article...

Evangelicals worried

Despite their packed megachurches, their political clout and their increasing visibility on the national stage, evangelical Christian leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves.

At an unusual series of leadership meetings in 44 cities this fall, more than 6,000 pastors are hearing dire forecasts from some of the biggest names in the conservative evangelical movement.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Maybe your bible is the best "given away" book in Canada and the USA.

http://www.caderbooks.com/bestintro.html

You are aware that these list don't contain religious material. They don't calculate them in with fiction or non-fiction. If they did there would be more than one translation of the bible in the top 5 and there would be other religious titles in the top ten.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You are aware that these list don't contain religious material. They don't calculate them in with fiction or non-fiction. If they did there would be more than one translation of the bible in the top 5 and there would be other religious titles in the top ten.

actually the 1970s non-fiction has
2. The New English Bible

Lets face facts here though...churches have to replace the hundreds of torn damaged copies they have in the pews yearly...how many would that account for?

[flames85]

I recommend to any atheist to watch the movie "A Case for Christ - Lee Strobel" even Christians this is a movie that will get you thinking. I always think of atheist as people too lazy to question if God exists or not. They just seem to me like they'd rather not believe cause its easier to do. Watch the movie with an open mind thats all i ask.

http://www.moviegallery.com/movies/m...STL&MID=145457

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flames85

I recommend to any atheist to watch the movie "A Case for Christ - Lee Strobel" even Christians this is a movie that will get you thinking. I always think of atheist as people too lazy to question if God exists or not. They just seem to me like they'd rather not believe cause its easier to do. Watch the movie with an open mind thats all i ask.

http://www.moviegallery.com/movies/m...STL&MID=145457

Seriously...before believing anything fully take a look around at what others have to say about that person.
Here:

Strobel 1

In light of Strobel's frequent reminders that he used to be a hard-nosed, skeptical journalist, I skimmed the table of contents and index to see which critics of Christianity he interviewed. In so doing, I discovered a glaring deficiency in Strobel's journalism: Strobel did not interview any critics of Christian apologetics, even though he attacks such individuals in his book.

Strobel devotes an entire chapter to his interview of Greg Boyd (an outspoken faultfinder of the Jesus Seminar), yet Strobel never interviewed a single member of the Jesus Seminar itself! Likewise, he repeatedly criticizes Michael Martin, author of Case Against Christianity, but he never bothered to get Martin's responses to those attacks.

Strobel 2

Strobel is frankly misleading about his experts' qualifications. While spending paragraphs touting each of his interviewees' "doctorate-level" educations, he fails to point out that most of them do not have doctorates in the fields dealing with the issues on which they were interviewed. Rather, most of them have doctorates in philosophy or theology, and perhaps undergraduate degrees in a related science. Strobel clearly meant to insinuate that he picked doctorate-level experts in the fields dealing with the issues they were interviewed about; but, with a few exceptions, this is not the case. This does not bode well for his claim of standing "in the shoes of the skeptic."

Strobel 3


Lee Strobel is a Christian apologetic.

I consider the VAST majority of atheist friends I know to be very educated about religion...hardly lazy. They research, read and try to understand not just Christianity but all religions. Being lazy is buying into one story or one version...like Lee Strobel.

[flames85]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Seriously...before believing anything fully take a look around at what others have to say about that person.
Here:

i think thats the problem. listening to others, watch it for yourself. not listen to what others have said about it. do you always listen to critics? this is another example of not giving something a shot.. not challenging your own beliefs, just being stubborn close minded athiest.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Cheese

actually the 1970s non-fiction has
2. The New English Bible

Lets face facts here though...churches have to replace the hundreds of torn damaged copies they have in the pews yearly...how many would that account for?

Wrong! The Bible is the best selling book of all time and is consistantly the best seller year after year.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...061218fa_fact1

The familiar observation that the Bible is the best-selling book of all time obscures a more startling fact: the Bible is the best-selling book of the year, every year. Calculating how many Bibles are sold in the United States is a virtually impossible task, but a conservative estimate is that in 2005 Americans purchased some twenty-five million Bibles—twice as many as the most recent Harry Potter book. The amount spent annually on Bibles has been put at more than half a billion dollars.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Wrong! The Bible is the best selling book of all time and is consistantly the best seller year after year.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...061218fa_fact1

The familiar observation that the Bible is the best-selling book of all time obscures a more startling fact: the Bible is the best-selling book of the year, every year. Calculating how many Bibles are sold in the United States is a virtually impossible task, but a conservative estimate is that in 2005 Americans purchased some twenty-five million Bibles—twice as many as the most recent Harry Potter book. The amount spent annually on Bibles has been put at more than half a billion dollars.

Exactly what does that prove? Seems like a bit of a straw man to me, though I note that Cheese is more than happy to knock it down for you.

[flames85]

the one thing that always bothers me is why Christians have to always prove that God exists. never that atheists have to prove God doesn't. I believe there will never be proof that he existed or didn't exist. It will always boil down to Faith.

Slightly off topic... i always wondered why atheists celebrate Christmas/Easter? anyone care to answer that for me?