Landover Baptist Pastor Preaches To Atheists

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What about the whole Sodom & Gomorrah/fire and brimstone bit?

Not saying their interpretation is correct (or incorrect), but obviously the topic comes up.

Sure it does....but Sodom and Gomorrah happened during Old Testament times.

If Phelps is really 'Baptist' his teachings should be based on New Testament literature.

For some reason he doesn't get that part though.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by alltherage

I didn't say I judge people actually. I don't judge people. I sometimes witness their personal contradictions.

True, you didn't say "I judge people", but you did say...

Originally Posted by alltherage

They clearly misunderstand or are just plain going against the teachings of Christianity, and therefore in my eyes aren't actually Christian.

If a Mormon or a Southern Baptist says that you aren't actually Christian, do you think he's judged you?

[photon]

Originally Posted by alltherage

That's just not true, but I think we've been down that road and you and I have to agree to disagree. Religion is so deep rooted that it compels people. It's not an opinion, its a part of people, whether you can wrap your head around it or not.

Trust me, I can wrap my head around it.. I've been in the evangelical community for 25+ years, so I know full well of what you speak.

But no matter how deep it goes, it's still faith and that by choice. It's not an intrinsic quality of that person. They aren't born Christian anymore than they were born NDP.

I hope you understand that's not a shot or anything at you

Definitely not taken as one.

its just that I can see why you may not understand the severity of someone's dedication to their beleifs if you have never been a religious person yourself.

Like I said 25+ years, so I've been there.

People die for their religion man, it's not an opinion, or something they chose to beleive. It's a staple of their lives that is emedded in them. It's a relationship with God that truly exists, and not everyone understands that.

It's still a choice to believe it, because many have chosen to believe it and then changed their minds and chosen not to. But I agree the strength of conviction can be significant, it is embedded deep, anything that is a huge part of a person's life will be.

But again that shouldn't make it beyond criticism. Heck faiths criticize themselves and each other all the times (sometimes with sharp sticks!).

And I would change that last sentence to it's a relationship with God they believe truly exists. Which from the believer's point of view is the same thing, but from others' point of view is different.

[Calgaryborn]

Atheists do appear to have a preoccupation with disparaging a God they claim doesn't exist. I'm sure one could find hundreds of sites like the one Shultzie has introduced to us to here that main purpose is to attack a God they claim not to believe in.

Could one find Christian sites that refutes and/or even belittles the atheist's belief system? Sure one could and those sites would no doubt number in the hundreds as well. But that's not all you would find. You could find thousands of sites dealing with social issues; Both on the political side and the practical side. You will find scams attempting to extract money from the gullible but, you'll also find legitimate charities doing good work all over this world.

You will also find thousands of sites that simply attempt to declare what they believe to be true. This must really get under you atheist's skins, judging by the amount of money and effort your organizations put into limiting religious expression.

Bottom line: The purpose of all these atheistic organizations is to attack any belief that they don't hold to with a special emphasis on belittling the Christian religion and it's God. Politically your primary goal seems to limit and ultimately outlaw religious expression within society. Yours is truly a religion of intolerance.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

True, you didn't say "I judge people", but you did say...



If a Mormon or a Southern Baptist says that you aren't actually Christian, do you think he's judged you?

It would depend on what he bases it on. If I were to go out and preach that sex before marriage is immoral and then I was openly and proudly promiscuous before marriage, and THEN he said I wasn't a true Catholic because of what he observed, then he would be right.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

well ATR if every Christian was like you, then i don't think we'd ever see these videos. unfortunately though much like Islam, there is a very determined and vocal minority that give a bad name to the majority. it's just that these fundamentalists use politics and courtrooms to try and enforce their beliefs on everyone, instead of guns or bombs. have you noticed that the sharp increase in anti-christian/pro-atheism activists is roughly on par with the sharp increase in "creationism in schools" debate and other hot button religious topics in politics?

so it may be a very small percentage of Christians who try to put the bible into public schools, or hold up signs saying "God Hates Fags", but unfortunately for you they are very loud in their rhetoric and cast a bad light on the entire group. i think that Muslims probably feel much the same way

You are exaclty right.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Yours is truly a religion of intolerance.

So you point out that Christianity as well as atheists has their more vocal groups who spend more time attacking and belittling than they should, but atheism is a religion of intolerance but Christianity isn't?

I think there's plenty of criticism to go around, to single one group out and lump them all together as more intolerant than the other seems a bit extreme.

[alltherage]

nm

Sorry dudes, I'm really interested in continuing this conversation/debate but I've got to be up early. If I see something I feel compelled to address I will do so tomorrow.

[photon]

Sorry, forgot to quote the post, I edited my post.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sure it does....but Sodom and Gomorrah happened during Old Testament times.

If Phelps is really 'Baptist' his teachings should be based on New Testament literature.

For some reason he doesn't get that part though.

Good point.

I have found a huge difference in the God of the Old vs. the God of the New Testament.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

This must really get under you atheist's skins, judging by the amount of money and effort your organizations put into limiting religious expression.

Oh yeah, it's really under my skin. I've spent my entire life donating less than zero percent of my money to the cause.

By the way, my unbelief has given me a terrible memory -- remind me again what organizations were involved and efforts were undertaken by "us" to limit religious expression.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Good point.

I have found a huge difference in the God of the Old vs. the God of the New Testament.

So which one wasn't written by God? Or did he just change his mind?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You will also find thousands of sites that simply attempt to declare what they believe to be true. This must really get under you atheist's skins, judging by the amount of money and effort your organizations put into limiting religious expression.

there are people and websites that proclaim what they BELIEVE to be true, and there are those that try to say what IS true, big difference. and usually those in the latter category go out of their way to force their beliefs on others, which is what does get under my skin.

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Bottom line: The purpose of all these atheistic organizations is to attack any belief that they don't hold to with a special emphasis on belittling the Christian religion and it's God. Politically your primary goal seems to limit and ultimately outlaw religious expression within society. Yours is truly a religion of intolerance.

the way i see it, these atheist organizations are designed to DEFEND against so-called "religious expression", the kind that tries to govern how everybody should live their lives. you don't see atheists trying to shut down churches or ban religion outright (maybe apart from a few radicals), they're just trying to make sure that THEIR beliefs aren't being trampled on, with religion playing an ever increasing role in politics.

i can tolerate anyone and what they believe as long as they can tolerate me and what I believe

[flamesfever]

I tend to put more faith in the New Testament.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I tend to put more faith in the New Testament.

ok i'm not trying to insult or flame anyone, but this is pure curiosity. what's the difference between the old and new testaments, aren't both supposed to be the word of god? if there are so many discrepancies between the two, did god change his mind? and what about all the passages that were written which didn't make the final cut into the bible, who was in charge of determining what was and wasn't the true word of god?

again i'm not trying to inflame this thread even further, but in no case does an atheist have an easier time in picking apart religion then when the bible is taken literally. as a collection of stories whose overall meaning is intended as a guide on how one should lead their life, yes the bible is quite good at that. but you just can't look at it as pure fact, simply because man still wrote it

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I tend to put more faith in the New Testament.

Yeah, but which one was written (or "inspired") by God and which one wasn't?

[AC]

I think religious views NEED to be able to be questioned as much as any other type of opinion/belief.

When an aspect of one's life has as much of an impact on society as religion does, I think its absolutley vital we treat it as any other sort of view.

A prime example is in regards to the attempts to wedge evolutionary science by Creationists/ID'ers.

Yes, its personal, and for people who believe, its a very closely-held view, but society cannot operate properly if certain things are not to be questioned.

As an atheist, I'm obviously biased in regards to poking fun at religion, but its not as if atheists are the sole group doing such a thing.

If I have to deal with other people looking down at me, telling me that because I shed the need to believe in a deity when I stopped believing in Santa Claus, that I'm a inherently less moral person, I don't mind ridiculing against the religious as much.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

So which one wasn't written by God? Or did he just change his mind?

I think the better thing to say is that God evolved.

There is a complete different set of rules/laws...whatever you want to call them from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

I mean, during the Old you'd slaughter a lamb or whatever, and if God would be pleased by your sacrifice your sins would be forgiven for another year.

In the 'New'....everything is based on your personal relationship with God.

I could go into more specifics...but I feel too much like I'm preaching then, and I don't think thats my place.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

ok i'm not trying to insult or flame anyone, but this is pure curiosity. what's the difference between the old and new testaments, aren't both supposed to be the word of god?

I look at the Old Testament as a collection of 'stories'....written to perhaps teach us a few moral lessons, but certainly not to be taken as the literal way to follow God.

If you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, which defines what a Christian is, your beliefs are based around Jesus Christ, his birth, his life, and his death.

Hint - none of that happened in the Old Testament.

The Jewish faith on the other hand, doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, which is why so much, if not all of their belief is based on the Old Testament.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think the better thing to say is that God evolved.

There is a complete different set of rules/laws...whatever you want to call them from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

I mean, during the Old you'd slaughter a lamb or whatever, and if God would be pleased by your sacrifice your sins would be forgiven for another year.

In the 'New'....everything is based on your personal relationship with God.

I could go into more specifics...but I feel too much like I'm preaching then, and I don't think thats my place.

And this is the main reason I don't believe in god. Because it is all just a bunch of stories that 'evolved'. Like greek mythology and all the other gods of the past, christianity and the rest of the modern religions are simply evolved versions of the beliefs of primitive men.
Science evolves because new things are proven every day. Religion evolves more and more people logically deduce that it is a farce. So they change it fairly regularly (though not regularly enough) so as not to alienate their followers.
While I accept that it provides a kind of settling feeling or a tranquility or whatever to the follower, I vehemently disagree with their historical scare tactics. Threats of hell if one did not give enough money or say enough hail marys...
Really, as much as some religious types want to flame the athiests, you really gotta look at your own organizations first. Maybe today's version doesn't creep you out like the mideval version, but therein lies the truth, no? I mean if we can look back at what you believed 500 years ago and say "geez, you fought these wars and gave this money and built these building all to save your soul, and now you acknowledge that it is all unnecessary"...