The spectator sport China DOESN'T want you to see

[Dion]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

People watch nature shows for entertainment purposes. I've seen some pretty savage scenes, where a lion or tiger hunts down its prey. The only difference I see is that this is a live feeding rather than taped.

You're forgetting the fact that the nature show is filmed in the wild where that prey often gets away from the lion. Throwing a lamb to the lions is not the wild but a man made enviroment where that lamb has a zero chance of escape. Also add to the fact that there is not hunt in that lamb beig killed by those lions.

[habernac]

when lions start tossing goats from higher elevations to their pals to devour, then we can compare this to a "this is what they do in the wild" scenario. This is a sick display of bloodlust from humans, no more, no less.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by habernac

when lions start tossing goats from higher elevations to their pals to devour, then we can compare this to a "this is what they do in the wild" scenario. This is a sick display of bloodlust from humans, no more, no less.

And I suppose you are some biologist? For all we know, they do do this in the wild. At least in the goating season.

Anyway, stupid cracks aside, I find it kind of strange that the kids didn't, you know, start to cry when they saw this. I'm no kid (I'm 16) and I don't think I would enjoy the show.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

And I suppose you are some biologist? For all we know, they do do this in the wild. At least in the goating season.

Anyway, stupid cracks aside, I find it kind of strange that the kids didn't, you know, start to cry when they saw this. I'm no kid (I'm 16) and I don't think I would enjoy the show.

You're 16?

[guzzy]

What is the difference is we eat the lamb or the lions or we do?

There are benefits at the top of the food chain.

Some nations have a different way of life than we do. I don't really see a problem.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by habernac

when lions start tossing goats from higher elevations to their pals to devour, then we can compare this to a "this is what they do in the wild" scenario. This is a sick display of bloodlust from humans, no more, no less.

I was in the Roman Collosseum in May and wondering about the history of the place, where this kind of spectacle, involving the slaughter of both humans and animals, was greeted with wild cheers by the local population at the time.

Romans would likely have a different view today.

As far as civilization is concerned, the Chinese might have 2000 or more years of catching up to do.

Then again, I could turn around and wonder why I didn't find enjoyment and laughter in watching my two dogs rip that gopher in half right in front of me two summers ago.

Cowperson

[Jason14h]

Why does everyone think the goat suffered? Goat thrown down, Goat eaten. Lion happy..... Where is the overall suffering?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why does everyone think the goat suffered? Goat thrown down, Goat eaten. Lion happy..... Where is the overall suffering?

Goat thrown down, breaks legs, desperately tries to run away on broken legs. Lion sinks teeth into goat's eye-socket. Another lion rips open goat's stomach. Another Lion pulls out his intestines with claws. Another Lion chews off his tongue. The other lions draw and quarter him. Then he dies.

Go watch my youtube link posted on the first page and tell me the mouse didn't suffer.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Lamb, while spectator, dies to feed lions.

Crowd cheers.

I dunno. The lions are fed. The lamb would die in a farm anyway.
...

I think there is a difference between acknowledging that some animals eat other animals and paying to throw a live lamb/chicken to the lions and then actually enjoying it.

One is pragmatic, the other sick.

IMO

[The Yen Man]

My only peeve is people seem to have different opinion depending on the type of animal. So when some kid feeds his pirahna (sp?) feeder fish, and the pirahna ends up eating half of it, and the feeder fish is still alive and kind of half swimming with only the rest of its front body intact, while its guts are spewing out, do you not think that fish is suffering? Oh but that's acceptable, because compared to a goat, what's a measely little feeder fish right? I mean, there's a ton of those you can buy at the fish store.

Like I said, the fluffy factor is higher with the goat. People look at it and go "aw, how cute! How can they do this to such a cute animal?! I'm outraged!" They dont' look at fish and say that, so I guess it must be ok.

Me, I personally think there are a lot more things in the world to be outraged about than this. The goat's in the lower part of the food chain, I guess that's just the way it goes.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Sorry, but I think you're contradicting yourself here. People watch nature shows for entertainment purposes. I've seen some pretty savage scenes, where a lion or tiger hunts down its prey. The only difference I see is that this is a live feeding rather than taped.

I honestly don't see the difference between this and a person feeding their pet snake live bait. I guess the fluffy factor is a little higher with a goat than a mouse maybe?

Nature shows are more for education rather than entertainment. But you do get an entertainment factor out of it. I didn't read the article, but based on what has been said in the thread, it sounds like some people paid money, in order to watch the lions destroy the goat. That to me is more about entertainment, than education. Especially if they dropped it from above.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Me, I personally think there are a lot more things in the world to be outraged about than this. The goat's in the lower part of the food chain, I guess that's just the way it goes.

So we should just ignore the animal cruelty and turn a blind eye to it because there are more important issues?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

As far as civilization is concerned, the Chinese might have 2000 or more years of catching up to do.

If this kind of thing isn't happening in our society today, then it was not too long ago.

[Locke]

You can call it de-sensitized to violence or whatever, but at what point did people think that this would a fun event to attend?

Forget the animal rights issues for a moment, because there is really little to no agreeing on that topic, and consider the actual implications about this.

Do people buy tickets?

Do they have concession stands?

Is there a minimum age requirement to attend?

Think about it. This isnt about whether or not its right or wrong to do this to the animal, nobody will agree about that, its about whether it is morally acceptable to attend/cheer at this event or what the moral implications are regarding profiting by holding this event.

For example:

Hockey Game vs Animal Slaughter Extravaganza?

You'll see me in the Dome every time even if the tickets are 100 times more expensive.

At what point does watching an animal be slaughtered get fun?

And I dont think anyone can blame this one on TV and video games.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Dion

So we should just ignore the animal cruelty and turn a blind eye to it because there are more important issues?

Hey like I said, if you want to raise an issue about this, then you shouldn't be discrimatory in the types of animals you help. Where's the outrage for all those suffering feeder fish? We should organize a march into Pisces Pet Emporium and free them from their cruel fates!

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I was in the Roman Collosseum in May and wondering about the history of

As far as civilization is concerned, the Chinese might have 2000 or more years of catching up to do.

I don't know if I would go throwing too many stones there round-eye...What about cultures that condone Bullfighting, Rodeo (calf ropin), Industrialized farming etc...

[Fire]

I don't see the big deal. It's a different culture in China. We might not agree with with it but it's none of our business to start with.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Like I said, the fluffy factor is higher with the goat. People look at it and go "aw, how cute! How can they do this to such a cute animal?! I'm outraged!" They dont' look at fish and say that, so I guess it must be ok.

"Fluffy factor" is evolutionary/hardwired. People like to nurture/protect cute things as it is part of child-rearing genes.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Hey like I said, if you want to raise an issue about this, then you shouldn't be discrimatory in the types of animals you help. Where's the outrage for all those suffering feeder fish? We should organize a march into Pisces Pet Emporium and free them from their cruel fates!

Where's your proof that i'm being discriminatory?

I loate any kind of animal abuse, especially ones where people get to pay to watch some lamb get mauled and torn apart by some lions.

Btw you didn't answer my question.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

If this kind of thing isn't happening in our society today, then it was not too long ago.

. . . . . . as my Big Book Of Tortures reminds me on many an occasion. (Nasty stuff in there, most of it a spectator sport and a place to bring the kids out to remind them of the perils of wickedness.)

Sure those Chinese can build skyscrapers and copy all kinds of computer gizmo's, but can they NOT throw goats over walls to the lions to entertain their children?

Apparently not.

I don't know if I would go throwing too many stones there round-eye...What about cultures that condone Bullfighting, Rodeo (calf ropin), Industrialized farming etc...

I took the picture below at the High River stampede last year . . . . . the moment when the left lead horse dropped dead from a heart attack at the finish line.

Now, I'm pretty sure the jockey didn't set out to kill his animal for the entertainment of the crowd, even if he had to know there's an outside chance of something like that happening, and I honestly don't think the spectators came to the chucks deliberately hoping they'd see an accident where a horse would die in front of them.

I'm not defending rodeo or wagon racing, but . . . . quite a different cultural leap between that and throwing sheep over a wall to the lions for the entertainment of kiddies.

And I'm pretty sure tickets aren't sold for "industrialized farming."

There's a reason dog-fighting of the Michael Vick variety is generally culturally unacceptable around here.



I don't see the big deal. It's a different culture in China. We might not agree with with it but it's none of our business to start with.

That kind of reasoning could extend to just about anything, including the slaughter in Darfur.

Cowperson