CP Women/Dating Discussion Thread #841 & #842

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

I don't think she should stop considering her own wants. She doesn't cease to exist in the relationship, but I do agree she should also be considering his thoughts on the matter. However, and I suppose this is an assumption on my part, she seems to think it's a non issue, and that she should be trusted by her boyfriend. The choice is hers and I still think that Rubecube needs to decide whether he trusts her or not and how much this whole extravaganza bothers him.

There's nothing wrong with considering your own needs in a relationship. The mistake this young girl is making is expecting Rube to trust her. Most guys would question why she is doing this and wether she has really let get of the past in regards to the guy she wants Rube to trust.

I suppose it could create temptation, this guy staying with her, but it doesn't mean she'll succumb to it. She says he is just a friend. This is where that trust thing comes in. He may have the dirtiest of intentions, but it doesn't mean she'll cave to his will just because they have done things in the past. Is she trustworthy? That's the key to this whole thing.

Would you never trust your significant other around someone they had previously slept/fooled around with or dated? Are you at risk to fool around with anyone that you have done things with in the past?

The thing is I would never put the significant other in my relationship in a situation like that. It's a foolish thing to do and shows a lack of maturity on her part. You don't bring temptation into a relationship with hopes the other person will trust you. Only a fool would believe that nothing could never happen. People are human and fall to their temptations everyday. That's why you eliminate it.

I agree that when you get right down to it, trust is the ultimate issue. In this case I believe Rube has the smarts and will make the descion he feels is correct.

[rubecube]

Okay so I talked to her about it last night and just basically said that I wasn't comfortable with it but that I trusted her enough that I wasn't going to stop her. I also let her know that I was disappoitned that she din't ask me how I felt about it
before making the plans.

She apologized for that part and said the reason she didn't think about it is because she doesn't think about the other guy in that light and that he didn't either. I told her I'd at least like to meet the guy before he stayed with her. She understood that and also said she'd have him stay in a hotel if I was stilll uncomfortable.

She said something that didn't really help her cause (keep in mind they've only fooled around - no actual intercourse), "He could've had me lots of times before when I did like him but he never made a move." I don't understand why she thinks I like hearing that kind of thing.

[Eastern Girl]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Elle, I realize I've probably never really addressed you directly so this might be weird, but bravo to you for, I think, being the only person in here coming close to looking at this situation in full (at least those who think her having this charlatan over isn't a big deal - and I think we can all agree he's a charlatan, can't we? )

Not all weird. It's a discussion board, we are allowed, and sometimes even encouraged to address each other. I will add that your post is quite good and I will attempt to respond to it with the same thoughtfulness you put into yours.

I think one of the key things that need to be considered in this situation is although rube and this girl have only been dating for two months, he's stated at very least that his interpretation of it is that the relationship is a little more serious than an 'average' relationship of this length. I understand perfectly well where he's coming from here ... as an anecdote, my wife and I met in a dorm at University so we saw each other each and every day ... so I know full-well how serious a two-month relationship can be.

As you have acknowledged, I have already admitted to thinking that she should have discussed it with him, or considered his feelings on the subject more diligently.

And with regards to the seriousness of the relationship, as I said in another post, I don't think there's a set time frame about when a relationship becomes serious or a person becomes trustworthy, so I think we just might be in agreement there.

As such, is it not appropriate to think that there needs to be a little self-sacrifice on her part here (or at least consideration of it?) I know that you are agreeing with this already, but many others are not. This isn't to say that she needs to "should stop considering her own wants" but rather that she should at least start considering her partner's wants, which it is pretty clear she isn't doing. There are so many alternatives here that could turn what is clearly a negative situation for her and rube's relationship into a positive:

- Invite herself over to his place for the night, if even to sleep in his bed while he is on the couch, being the gentleman he is,
- Invite rube to spend the night himself
- Invite rube to share the cost of a hotel room for the charlatan so he isn't in her apartment at least

The problem I have with her having to self sacrifice is, and I know I am probably going to get slammed for the use of a 'slippery slope' type argument, but where should she draw the line? Say she does self sacrifice, what if somewhere down the line, he (Rubecube) decides he finds it unacceptable for her to hang out with the guy at all. Is she supposed to cut off the relationship entirely?

It seems that most think that she has to sacrifice and acknowlegde that he has taken issue with this, but what about her feelings? Rubecube is essentially saying without explicitly saying that he doesn't trust her. Perhaps, he could do a little self sacrificing and use this as a situation to fully figure out whether she is trustworthy. Trust can be earned, let her try and earn it.

I'm surprised that people here are saying that he just needs to trust her or get out. He's clearly saying that this situation is making him uncomfortable, and relationships are not about accepting something you find unacceptable out of 'love' or whatever. One of the negatives (I suppose) about being in a relationship is that you need to consider another person's opinions and thoughts and take them into account when you make decisions. I understand the situation is completely different, but if I wanted to do exactly what rube's girl is and my wife said it would make her uncomfortable, I'd tell my friend that they had to find their own accomodations or we'd have to figure out an alternate arrangement, no questions asked. I'd never tell my wife, "oh you need to trust me".

Unfortunately, I think rube's been put into a classic Kobayashi Maru (unwinnable situation) ... either he can voice his displeasure more firmly and make her know that this is a significant problem for her, or he can accept what he considers unacceptable. I think it's pretty clear that her friend staying over is more important than his feelings which doesn't bode well for the relationship (sorry man). By the way, I reiterate that there is absolutely no way that she'd be OK with it were the situations reversed, especially when you add it all up:

- recently broke up with his girlfriend (REBOUND!)
- has fooled around with rube's girl in recent memory
- thought I saw on here that he has a history of disregarding the concept of monogamy
- rube's girl has a roommate and she is never around
- she didn't even give him the token, "If that's OK with you ..."

Again, I agree that in a relationship you have to consider the others feelings. But to me, hearing people list off the reasons why this girl will cheat is rather self defeating. It sounds like people figure she will definitely cheat if the guy stays over and if you really think that then what good is this relationship, because there is zero trust there...

All that being said, rube, you're a good guy, but saying, "I trust her, it's just that I don't trust him" comes off as just a nice way of saying, "I don't trust her". Unless you literally mean that you think he'll force himself on her - and you can't go through your life worrying about your SO getting raped by every male associate she has. If we're all being honest with eachother, what you're actually saying is, "I believe he will put the moves on her, and she will give in", which is the same as "I don't trust her".

Agreed. I don't think he trusts her which is why I was pushing for him to really think about things or perhaps give her a chance to earn his trust.

[Eastern Girl]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Okay so I talked to her about it last night and just basically said that I wasn't comfortable with it but that I trusted her enough that I wasn't going to stop her. I also let her know that I was disappoitned that she din't ask me how I felt about it
before making the plans.

She apologized for that part and said the reason she didn't think about it is because she doesn't think about the other guy in that light and that he didn't either. I told her I'd at least like to meet the guy before he stayed with her. She understood that and also said she'd have him stay in a hotel if I was stilll uncomfortable.

She said something that didn't really help her cause (keep in mind they've only fooled around - no actual intercoursE), "He could've had me lots of times before when I did like him but he never made a move." I don't understand why she thinks I like hearing that kind of thing.

Oh, well that is good that you discussed it. Makes my massive post seem rather pointless now, lol.

Are you going to take her up on that and have him stay in a hotel... if you don't mind my asking?

Yeah, I don't know why she would say that to you. She's trying to build trust with you...

[J pold]

I would just like to clear up my view points on this matter about trust and such as it seems many people don’t understand it, yes I think you should trust the person you are with and that if you feel you can’t you should just get it out…

But what is more important is being able to trust yourself in a situation like this. To me it is important to believe that you are the best man for your girlfriend and that no other guy out there could do a better job than you. If my girlfriend where to say the same thing to me I wouldn’t have a problem because without even having met this other guy I know that I am better than him for her

I know a lot of people are going to think this idea is both arrogant and ignorant and in a way it kind of is. But here is the thing if I am wrong and my girlfriend cheats on me it’s not her fault its mine. It’s that same old saying…that no women has ever cheated on a man, men fail women. Women are loving people and if you allow them, and love them enough in return they don’t have a reason to find love from other sources.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by J pold

women are loving people and if you allow them, and love them enough in return they don’t have a reason to find love from other sources.

Nonsense. Some women are just tramps and other are capable and prone to momentary lapses of judgement and mistakes. They're still human.

[J pold]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Nonsense. Some women are just tramps and other are capable and prone to momentary lapses of judgement and mistakes. They're still human.

True but why would you waste your time with these types of women?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by J pold

True but why would you waste your time with these types of women?

Because they're easy when they're drunk. Wear low cut shirts and tight jeans and have low internal self esteem

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by J pold

True but why would you waste your time with these types of women?

I don't waste time with tramps but I haven't found a formula that points in the right direction of a flawless woman. You can always trust someone and expect they won't do you wrong or make an error in judgment but life doesn't always work out that way.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by J pold

Women are loving people and if you allow them, and love them enough in return they don’t have a reason to find love from other sources.

That kind of thinking is going to hurt you someday. A good friend of mine lost his wife some years ago to another man. He did everything you stated and felt secure that the relationship was solid. Problem is people are human and are are subjected to temptation. In his case his ex ran into an old Flame and somehow it got rekindled and she had an affair with that guy. In the end it destroyed the marraige.

[J pold]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Because they're easy when they're drunk. Wear low cut shirts and tight jeans and have low internal self esteem

but I'll tell you what's not cool--killing strippers. Strippers are people too; naked people who may be willing to pleasure you for a price you negotiate later behind the curtain of a VIP room. Besides, there's no reason to kill them, 'cause most of them are already dead inside...

[J pold]

Originally Posted by Dion

That kind of thinking is going to hurt you someday. A good friend of mine lost his wife some years ago to another man. He did everything you stated and felt secure that the relationship was solid. Problem is people are human and are are subjected to temptation. In his case his ex ran into an old Flame and somehow it got rekindled and she had an affair with that guy. In the end it destroyed the marraige.

You maybe right but in the end she has to turn somewhere else to find a source of love, you can’t blame her for that

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

Just a little?

haha set me self up to get burned there didn't I?

no, there's only so much of the gimp to go around

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by J pold

True but why would you waste your time with these types of women?

well Tramps serve a purpose..

[Dion]

Originally Posted by J pold

You maybe right but in the end she has to turn somewhere else to find a source of love, you can’t blame her for that

What I blame her for is not having the balls to admit there was a problem in the relationship. How about making the effort to try and make it work or being honest enough to say I need a divorce? She didn't do either but instead ran to the arms of a former flame like a 2 bit tramp would do. That and brought shame to her family. You hurt other people when you do things like this.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Dion

-snip- In his case his ex ran into an old Flame -snip-

Was it Tim Hunter? I heard that guy was a total playa - must have been the nose, as apparently the size of that correlates with a certain other body part...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by jammies

Was it Tim Hunter? I heard that guy was a total playa - must have been the nose, as apparently the size of that correlates with a certain other body part...

No. It wasn't anybody from the Flames - just an old boyfriend from the past.

I'm surprised to hear that Hunter was like that. I used to live in Maple Ridge and at the time he lived a block from where i lived. He was well liked a respcted in the community.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by J pold

You maybe right but in the end she has to turn somewhere else to find a source of love, you can’t blame her for that

So then it's the woman's fault if the guy cheats on her?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Dion

No. It wasn't anybody from the Flames - just an old boyfriend from the past.

I'm surprised to hear that Hunter was like that. I used to live in Maple Ridge and at the time he lived a block from where i lived. He was well liked a respcted in the community.

Who in their right mind would disrespect Tim Hunter...?

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Dion

No. It wasn't anybody from the Flames - just an old boyfriend from the past.

I'm surprised to hear that Hunter was like that. I used to live in Maple Ridge and at the time he lived a block from where i lived. He was well liked a respcted in the community.

Whoosh - that's the sound of that one going overhead. Jump, Dion, jump! Nope - too late - it's gone right by.

I was just riffing off the capital in old Flame - I'm sure Mr. Hunter has not, at any time, acted in anything other than a non-extramarital fashion.