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Old 02-18-2005, 12:02 AM   #1
Mike F
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The Supreme Court will be hearing a case in the near future that will likely have direct implications for all of us:

"Party hosts and their responsibility for guests' drunken behaviour will be examined by the Supreme Court of Canada"

"The court agreed Thursday to hear an appeal by a woman in Ontario arguing party hosts are liable for the actions of their guests"

"Childs had argued that finding a host liable for the actions of a guest would be simply an extension of well-established rules of negligence for homeowners, such as fixing something that could cause injury on their property"


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Should we have to police the people that we have over?
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Old 02-18-2005, 12:07 AM   #2
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Ooooooo boy, see if anyone ever has a party ever again if this one wins. See if the lady filing suit ever gets invited to one too. Since when did the host become a babysitter anyways? Would that mean if anything is broken or stolen from the hosts house it's the host's fault then? Like I basically expect the host to give er one round of 'any of you clowns drinking with keys in your pocket can hand em in to me right now and find a nice spot on the floor to crash.' Some drunk decides to keep their keys and drive home, definitely not the hosts fault in my eyes.

Here's to hoping this one doesn't go far...
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Old 02-18-2005, 12:54 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike F@Feb 18 2005, 12:02 AM
Should we have to police the people that we have over?
I don't know the answer to that one, but it appears that the Supreme Court will once again be *making* the law in this country. Seriously...if there's any ambiguity in the law, parliament should bloody well change it to reflect what the people intend, rather than what one woman thinks.
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Old 02-18-2005, 09:24 AM   #4
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Occupier's Liability is a scary area of law. At common law, you were liable to someone who trespassed on your land and injured his or her self. Yup: someone breaks into your house to rob you, tripped down your stairs injuring his back and could sue your butt.

Statutes were enacted to alter this kind of thing. Now, you are only liable to people who trespass on your land and injure themselves if you were reckless or acted purposefully to hurt them.

Taverns have been liable to people who injure themselves, or others, after leaving the establishment drunk. It makes some sense that they would owe a duty of care to their patrons since a tavern is making money by making people drunk. It's not a far cry to hold a private person holding a private party liable for the actions of their guests.

Albeit there are exceptions to your liability if you warn people or there is a clear voluntary assumption of risk on behalf of the guest. Law in this area isn't coherent. The harshness of the common law is altered but various non-uniform provincial Occupier's Liability Acts. Rather than making new law, this may be a great opportunity to clarify the law in Canada.

Keep in mind I am not a lawyer (but I am a crappy law student).
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Old 02-18-2005, 09:36 AM   #5
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The liability for a bar is bad enough let alone liability of a host of a party. I would certainly not support this change int he law ans would rather loosen the laws regarding liability in these situations.

Can people not take responsibility of their actions anymore?
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Old 02-18-2005, 09:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by moon@Feb 18 2005, 09:36 AM
Can people not take responsibility of their actions anymore?
The law, as I understand it now, holds the party-thrower and tavern responsible for their own actions. It's not that you can't have a party, it's just that you have to make sure people at your party don't get really drunk and do stupid hurtful things. If you take proper steps to prevent that kind of thing, you would be okay. You could still be sued but you would have a defence in court.
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Old 02-18-2005, 10:48 AM   #7
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Not a big fan of this if the court allows it. Some people will drive home no matter what. A person back home I recall was given a ride home by someone. He called a cab, went back to his vehicle, and promptly drove head on into a semi truck. You can't tell me they didn't take precautions by driving this guy home.
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Old 02-18-2005, 10:54 AM   #8
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In those kinds of situations, you would probably be protected provided you took all reasonable steps to make sure your guest didn't drive home drunk. The drunk guy probably doesn't have the capacity to make a rational decision so the onus on the (presumably) sober host is even greater. Maybe this case will come back and say you better physically remove the keys from your guest and/or make sure the dude takes a cab. After the case is decided, we'll know for sure.
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Old 02-18-2005, 11:23 AM   #9
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I had a buddy that drove home drunk after I took away two sets of his keys. Nothing happened but I am now goign to be held responsible because he had three sets of keys?

I guess I think that if you go to the bar and get drunk you should be responsible for anything that you do thereafter. If I get hit by a drunk driver and killed I sure as hell hope that it is him that is held responsible and not the bar he was at.
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Old 02-18-2005, 11:36 AM   #10
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For sure. In suing people, you tend to throw a lot of shinguard agains the wall and hope that something sticks (see Steve Moore's lawsuit). You sue everyone remotely connected with the cause of action and let the court sort it out. Part of the reasoning for this is that should you win judgement, you want to be able to collect. Doesn't do a lot of good if you only sue the impecunious driver. Sure you win in court but the chances of getting cash? Notta. However, you get the tavern and the bartender or the host of the party and the owner of the house involved and someone will probably have deep enough pockets to allow you to collect. Plus this in theory, however misguided the notion may be, should provide motivation to act responsibly when you are hosting a party.

Taking two sets of keys from your buddy was probably good enough. Unless you watched him take a third out of his pocket, get in the car and drive away. Provided you didn't know about the third set and should not have any reason to know about it, you were likely diligent enough to discharge your duty. Plus, if you weren't the host of the party in question there would be a different duty at play anyway...
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Old 02-18-2005, 12:16 PM   #11
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The problem with being a "responsible host" is that you then have treat guests like babies almost. If some guy gets drunk and I put him to bed do I now have to stay up all night to make sure that he doesn't get up in the night and drive home drunk? Do I have to look my door to ensure that he doesn't sneak out sometime when I am not looking? Just doesn't seem like a very fun time for me at my own party.

At a bar how do I know if the guy ordering drinks at the bar isn't actually giving them to his buddy that is drunk/cut off/told to take a break?

How do you know buddy didn't have a few drinks at the bar and then drink so more in his car before driving away?

There are way to many factors invloved to say that it was the fault of the bartender and/or bar in these situations.

Especially when it was nobody's fault other than the guy who drove drunk.
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Old 02-18-2005, 12:41 PM   #12
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Well, in most of the cases you talk about the host/bartender probably wouldn't be liable. Might not stop you from getting sued but you would have a good defence in court. I know it's not particularly reassuring to know you might have to suffer through the whole process to be vindicated...
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Old 02-18-2005, 12:46 PM   #13
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I think the best way around this is if you are the host just get drunk. Has there not been exceptions made for people who were too drunk to know what they were doing? If you're loaded how can you be responsible for who drives home?
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Old 02-18-2005, 12:48 PM   #14
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You are right you may not be liable in the ned but do want to have to go through all of this because you had a party?

Should bartenders go through all this because they work in the industry?

It seems as though that cases such as these are the ones that p*ss people off and then it is the cases where hosts/bartenders actually have done something wrong that are then discounted as well.
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Old 02-18-2005, 01:12 PM   #15
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"Hey guys, thank for coming over, this is going to be an awesome party. Hold on, before you come in, I need you all to sign a waiver."

I can see people doing this...
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