Brawling Priests!

[Cheese]

Say what? Over what? Sounds like a pilot for a new TV series.

Seven people were injured on Thursday when Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests came to blows in a dispute over how to clean the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.

Though shall not use Mr Clean!

For a quarter of an hour bearded and robed priests laid into each other with fists, brooms and iron rods while the photographers who had come to take pictures of the annual cleaning ceremony recorded the whole event.
A dozen unarmed Palestinian policemen were sent to try to separate the priests, but two of them were also injured in the unholy melee.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Say what? Over what? Sounds like a pilot for a new TV series.

Seven people were injured on Thursday when Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests came to blows in a dispute over how to clean the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.

Though shall not use Mr Clean!

For a quarter of an hour bearded and robed priests laid into each other with fists, brooms and iron rods while the photographers who had come to take pictures of the annual cleaning ceremony recorded the whole event.
A dozen unarmed Palestinian policemen were sent to try to separate the priests, but two of them were also injured in the unholy melee.

Every Year Cheese, it happens every year.

The Greek Orthodox, Armenian and Catholic Church a share the Church of the Nativity. Considering it's importance it is unsurprising that passions and temper flare. Hence the Church's key is given to a Muslim family, the same family for some 400 years, to keep the uneasy peace.

Tell me Cheese. Considering how you feel about religion; If you are so sure of your Atheism/Intellectualism why do you feel you need to keep poking at those stupid myth believers anyways? A little ambivalence maybe? Got to keep poking the ant to reaffirm your superiority?

[Daradon]

While the situation is funny, I don't think there is anything wrong with what Cheese is doing. Sure we all know his MO by now, and no one is surprised.

But for the topic at hand, shouldn't those that are, because of their beliefs and position, supposed to be held as examples, be shown as the humans they are?

They are not celebrities, they are 'holy men' who took a 'holy oath' of peace and love.

So... WHERE'S THE LOVE?

Strict belief in religion and rules invariably causes fighting and evil in the very people who are supposed to be able to turn the other cheek.

Why not point and laugh at those to blinded by their own self importance to realize they are breaking their own dogma?

Why not spread the word against such pretenders and hateful people? Wouldn't you want a person like that out of your faith? Or at least brought back to the fold with some good advice?

Cause the other options are surely much much more scary.

In the world in general, you have two sides. I know this is simplifying it but...

You have one side that is so fat and greedy, they don't care about anything other then their own little universe. Waste away the hours in front of the TV not caring about the world around them. Try to get as rich as possible while ignoring the poor and ruining the planet.

And the other side is SO passionate about religion and politics and the world it's blowing the crap out of any side that doesn't agree with it. Whether the culprit or the attacker is Eastern or Western it happens.

(Obviously the actions on both sides also have to deal with the education level and relative living standard, as well as other issues, but I'm keeping things simple here for the moment to illustrate a point)

A small few fit in the middle, but don't know what to do about it. Probably more than a small few, but it seems that way because they don't do much about it.

So, really, the best way to fight ignorance is probably with some good natured jest or a subtle barb that contains at least some common sense. People get so serious about the debate, it becomes necessary to find the most weird examples, and start the debate form there sometimes.

There are may things we have today that was thought against the grain and wrong before the subject was brought to light with speech, action, but often HUMOUR.

Think of the women who got the vote. Many of the protests involved mock situations or plays illuminating how illogical the current situation was.

Situations like this NEED to be shown for what they really are, and shown to as many people as possible.

And as in situations like this, that's about all you can do. Ignoring it doesn't help, and hard action only makes them more ready to fight.

So yes, ridicule them. They deserve it.

Nothing against you HOZ or what you believe in. I have nothing against any belief.

But fundamentalism in any form is dangerous and should be brought attention to at any cost. Cheese may get over zealous at times, but I'll take that any day of the week over ignorant or power hungry holy men or their blind followers.

If you don't fall in there, you shouldn't be offended.

Take a step back and laugh, or spread the word. Cheese isn't attacking religion, just the guys who get all crazy about it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Cheese isn't attacking religion, just the guys who get all crazy about it.

Nah.

He attacks religion every chance he gets.

Course there is nothing wrong with that, but to me its pointless.

Religion has always bred corruption. Especially amongst the Catholics.

Why not point and laugh at those to blinded by their own self importance to realize they are breaking their own dogma?

Why not?

If only that would happen.

The recent thread about the Pope and his views on global warming proved to us that there are people blinded by self importance on both sides. And that some people love to bash the Pope, and Catholics in general every chance they get.

Of course often enough they do have a point. But at times people on both sides are so blinded by their own self importance that it hurts their cause.

It was actually funny reading through the Pope's global warming thread, and seeing how people were attacking him without actually reading what the Pope said.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Every Year Cheese, it happens every year.

The Greek Orthodox, Armenian and Catholic Church a share the Church of the Nativity. Considering it's importance it is unsurprising that passions and temper flare. Hence the Church's key is given to a Muslim family, the same family for some 400 years, to keep the uneasy peace.

Tell me Cheese. Considering how you feel about religion; If you are so sure of your Atheism/Intellectualism why do you feel you need to keep poking at those stupid myth believers anyways? A little ambivalence maybe? Got to keep poking the ant to reaffirm your superiority?

Why not? If we dont keep the ignorance at the forefront it may go back to what it was 100s of years ago. Funny, yes. Ignorant, uh huh...even stupid.
Its no different than a priest/minister/politician calling out Atheists as ignorant.
I also understand it leaves the door wide open to poke fun at ignorant Atheists...but I think we have more ammo.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Why not? If we dont keep the ignorance at the forefront it may go back to what it was 100s of years ago. Funny, yes. Ignorant, uh huh...even stupid.
Its no different than a priest/minister/politician calling out Atheists as ignorant.
I also understand it leaves the door wide open to poke fun at ignorant Atheists...but I think we have more ammo.

Religious people do stupid things.

Atheists do stupid things.

More religious people in the world = more religious people doing stupid things.

Hence your 'ammo.'

Oh, I seriously doubt we're going to go back where we were a 100 years ago.

[flamesfever]

I have friends and family who are Believers in God, Agnostics (leaning toward a Belief in God or Atheism) and Atheists. And I can't recall one incident where anyone of them was looked down upon for their belief in this regard.

I guess what bugs be the most is where dogmatic Believers try to change Atheists and dogmatic Atheists try to change Believers.

[Locke]

If iI was a priest I would hold illegal bareknuckle-boxing matches in my church every weekend.

The parisioner who donated the least to the collection plate gets an automatic spot in the main event.

Hows that for motivation? That is 'old-testament' justice.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Locke

If iI was a priest I would hold illegal bareknuckle-boxing matches in my church every weekend.

The parisioner who donated the least to the collection plate gets an automatic spot in the main event.

Hows that for motivation? That is 'old-testament' justice.

First rule of Fight Club is....?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by HOZ

First rule of Fight Club is....?

....go for the priest first?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Locke

....go for the priest first?

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEzius........................


DON'T TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB.......


Even if you R taken down the Amenian priest wielding the broom!

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I have friends and family who are Believers in God, Agnostics (leaning toward a Belief in God or Atheism) and Atheists. And I can't recall one incident where anyone of them was looked down upon for their belief in this regard.

I guess what bugs be the most is where dogmatic Believers try to change Atheists and dogmatic Atheists try to change Believers.

So um...is there something called a "weak believer"? or an "open minded Believer"? Who draws the line? Doesnt that go against the grain of any religion?
Is the opposite of a dogmatic Atheist an open minded Atheist or a weak atheist?
Just asking.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Cheese

So um...is there something called a "weak believer"? or an "open minded Believer"? Who draws the line? Doesnt that go against the grain of any religion?
Is the opposite of a dogmatic Atheist an open minded Atheist or a weak atheist?
Just asking.

By dogmatic I mean arrogant unquestioning individuals who try to force their beliefs on others e.g. fundamentalists on the Religious side and some of the zealous Atheists on the other.

There was an interesting article in the Editorial section of the Herald this morning entitled "Prayer or silence not offensive". Here is the last part of it:

Atheists appear to be the angriest people in western society. Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris practically froth at the mouth, so virulent are they in denouncing other people's beliefs, and insisting that theirs is the only truth. One might ask how atheists envision a Godless, reason-based society when they aren't even reasonable enough to tolerate the practices of those with whom they disagree.
Could it be they are so insecure in their own non-belief because they are afraid there just might be a God after all?

[Azure]

Interesting.

I like reading what Hitchens has to say 'most' of the time, but there are instances when he does come across as being overzealous and outright annoying.

But I guess in the name of 'atheism' that is alright, because apparently they have to 'educate the ignorant masses.'

Nevermind being tolerant about other beliefs.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Locke

If iI was a priest I would hold illegal bareknuckle-boxing matches in my church every weekend.

The parisioner who donated the least to the collection plate gets an automatic spot in the main event.

Hows that for motivation? That is 'old-testament' justice.

Not exactly. "Old Testament" justice would have the losers dragged out of the sanctuary, and either burned as a sacrifice before Yahweh or one of his consorts in the ancient Israelite pantheon, or merely torn limb from limb and scattered throughout the kingdom.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

By dogmatic I mean arrogant unquestioning individuals who try to force their beliefs on others e.g. fundamentalists on the Religious side and some of the zealous Atheists on the other.

There was an interesting article in the Editorial section of the Herald this morning entitled "Prayer or silence not offensive". Here is the last part of it:

Atheists appear to be the angriest people in western society. Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris practically froth at the mouth, so virulent are they in denouncing other people's beliefs, and insisting that theirs is the only truth. One might ask how atheists envision a Godless, reason-based society when they aren't even reasonable enough to tolerate the practices of those with whom they disagree.
Could it be they are so insecure in their own non-belief because they are afraid there just might be a God after all?

Unquestioning? I don't think you can pin that label on the atheists. Certainly no more than it can be pinned on religious people.

As for the Herald quote... same old same old. Atheists are angry, doubtful, insecure, intolerant, unreasonable bla bla bla. We get it already. The people who believe in things that simply and absolutely can not be true and believe their neighbours will spend eternity in a fiery pit are the reasonable people.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

As for the Herald quote... same old same old. Atheists are angry, doubtful, insecure, intolerant, unreasonable bla bla bla. We get it already. The people who believe in things that simply and absolutely can not be true and believe their neighbours will spend eternity in a fiery pit are the reasonable people.

Sigh.

Simply and absolutely can not be true?

Give me a break.

[RougeUnderoos]

There are certain things that certain religious people believe that simply and absolutely can't be true.

I don't see how you can argue with that, even if you do believe in God.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

...The people who believe in things that simply and absolutely can not be true and believe their neighbours will spend eternity in a fiery pit are the reasonable people.

Does this accurately describe all "religious" people?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There are certain things that certain religious people believe that simply and absolutely can't be true.

I don't see how you can argue with that, even if you do believe in God.

What do you mean by that? What sort of "truth" are you describing here?