Hmv

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Well it's never going back that way. A generation has been raised that see music as a disposable commodity in far too great abundance for what few gems there are - which is what it is. Most people these days get bored of an average song after 2-3 listens...then it becomes worthless and not worthy to purchase or pay for. The old album method of putting together singles in hopes of scoring a hit and then making the buyer pay for all the tracks together (even if most are just fillers) doesn't work anymore. Sure there are a few complete or concept albums out there that are completely excellent or cohesive, but face it, most people only like a few songs and therefore, the rest of the traditional CD is not worth the price paid.

The age of portable music started by the walk-man really made music something to just "have in the background" or "pass the time" with rather than experienced and that's something that will not change...and that inherently removes much of the dollar value out of the music for the average consumer. I have no problem with that and I will download music without giving it a second thought. I will only pay for music that I truely love and feel is good. Most of the stuff included on a CD album...isn't. And yes, nomatter how much you try, there is some music you want but just can't buy nor find anywhere, even from online shops that you are simply forced to download. Nothing can be done about that.

And finally about the nostalgia you spoke about for the old experience of hearing about music or being given it by friends and sitting down and listening to it...much of it happened on bootlegged and home-made copied mix-tapes in the first place which is really no different than file-sharing or downloading music. I don't consider the average price of albums whether in the age of vinyl or the age of CDs to have ever been a fair price. It was just a money-making machine for the studios (which ripped off artists and ignored smaller artists) and now they are crying because they've lost their lucrative sugar daddy.

well said...i have no problem with consumers forcing the industry to change..they dont do themselves any favors with shows like MTV Cribs - the perception to most is...well even in the age of music sharing - artist are finding ways to make their money...from clothing lines to even bottled water...music is now a marketing tool...like a commercial for G-Unit or Spear's Curious perfume...

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

well said...i have no problem with consumers forcing the industry to change..they dont do themselves any favors with shows like MTV Cribs - the perception to most is...well even in the age of music sharing - artist are finding ways to make their money...from clothing lines to even bottled water...music is now a marketing tool...like a commercial for G-Unit or Spear's Curious perfume...

The sad reality is that only a tiny percentage of artists are finding these other ways to make money through clothing lines and perfume.

The industry has helped cause this damage itself however the real losers are the scores of artists who can't haven't figured out how to have hollywood make a movie about their upbringing.

[DementedReality]

however you guys wants to justify it, you are STEALING something that doesnt belong to you.

[gottabekd]

1. As many have said, apparently according to current Canadian law, it is somewhat/gray area legal.

2. The other point is even if it is (or becomes) technically illegal, many do not find it immoral.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

1. As many have said, apparently according to current Canadian law, it is somewhat/gray area legal.

2. The other point is even if it is (or becomes) technically illegal, many do not find it immoral.

like i said, however you want to justify it ... i am not saying i havent had a few dowloaded files in my life, but it is still stealing. if someone else owns it and offers it for sale and you "take" it without paying for it, you stole it. no grey area at all.

[Igottago]

Its really a matter of how we want the business model of music to work. I have friends who own ipods, have lots of music on it, yet they don't own a single CD..and they aren't buying the downloads through iTunes. They have a sense that they should never have to pay for music, and they never will. They just don't value it that way.

And the way I see it, that's the way most consumers think about music today. This mentality will slowly kill the music industry, its already happening. It will be increasingly harder for bands, even really good bands, to be career musicians. They may have their moment of fame and then fade away. If we are okay with that, then having no music industry and transitioning towards self-released mp3 albums is the way to go.

The music industry deserves more than its share of criticism. They have been pushing weak generic product onto people for years now, cashing in on silly trends and not developing talent like they used to. Obviously a lot of what is being pushed on people isn't really worth buying anyways. But if we lose that framework of music being a business, then in a way we will start losing the importance of music in our culture. Great albums will no longer be culturally significant, they will be some guys on the internet who made something in their basement and released it themselves, with no promotional support, which might catch on if they're lucky.

[DementedReality]

this debate has some shades of the "music snob" themes we have seen before... who says the top 40 music is bad and nto developed and therefore its ok to steal it?

i like radio music and think it is just of worthy as independant artists and that no matter what you think of the music, if you like it you should buy it and not steal it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

If its not top 40 you're stealing from an artist who NEEDS the money, to do things like eat, or pay their bills so they can post on CP about it.

Not necessarily true.

There are a lot of obscure artists out there who depend on torrents and other ulterior methods in order to create a fan-base.

I know I've discovered A LOT of bands through 'illegal' methods that I never knew about previously. Because of it I have bought certain CDs that I otherwise would have never known existed.

Also, most people who download torrents don't actually 'buy' music in the first place. Therefore the artists whose music they are downloading technically do not lose money because of it.

I think Bobblehead posted an article a couple months ago about a study that had concluded that illegal downloading was NOT costing the music business any money. In fact, it had actually helped generate interest in certain bands, certain types of music, and because of the illegal downloading, a certain amount of money was being made per song 'illegally' downloaded.

[gottabekd]

For reference, I believe this is the study in question: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/..._ip01456e.html


From the Summary of Results page:

...our analysis of the Canadian P2P file-sharing subpopulation suggests that there is a strong positive relationship between P2P file-sharing and CD purchasing. That is, among Canadians actually engaged in it, P2P file-sharing increases CD purchasing. We estimate that the effect of one additional P2P download per month is to increase music purchasing by 0.44 CDs per year

[SarichFan]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Both of you must have been lost before the internet hey? Or have you never listened to vinyl other than beats?

No, but I have like 100 albums that have one good song, or suck altogether in a box somewhere.

I paid my dues

[Azure]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

For reference, I believe this is the study in question: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/..._ip01456e.html


From the Summary of Results page:

Thank you very much!

I think the results speak for themselves. I'm actually surprised in a way that more bands aren't using the 'torrent' method to further their popularity.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

this debate has some shades of the "music snob" themes we have seen before... who says the top 40 music is bad and nto developed and therefore its ok to steal it?

i like radio music and think it is just of worthy as independant artists and that no matter what you think of the music, if you like it you should buy it and not steal it.

If you dont think there are manufactured artists designed to push units because of 1 engineered "hit" single, you are sadly mistaken. So it begs the question, if I want one Britney Spears single, why would I go out and buy a CD full of filler? I might as well download that crap song that won't be cool in a few months anyways.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Igottago

If you dont think there are manufactured artists designed to push units because of 1 engineered "hit" single, you are sadly mistaken. So it begs the question, if I want one Britney Spears single, why would I go out and buy a CD full of filler? I might as well download that crap song that won't be cool in a few months anyways.

i dont understand ... you mean a company has identified what "sound" a large population "likes" and has hired people to produce such "sound" in an effort to make money?

whats the problem? it is a formula that works because people like the music ..

for instance, i happen to really like ALL the songs on the latest Timberlake CD. maybe because its a good CD to listen too?

go figure, business producing something to make money.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

whats the problem? it is a formula that works because people like the music ..

The "formula" of having one hit song and a bunch of filler used to work, because people didn't have much of an alternative.

Now we do.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

i dont understand ... you mean a company has identified what "sound" a large population "likes" and has hired people to produce such "sound" in an effort to make money?

whats the problem? it is a formula that works because people like the music ..

for instance, i happen to really like ALL the songs on the latest Timberlake CD. maybe because its a good CD to listen too?

go figure, business producing something to make money.

Yeah, from a money making standpoint its brilliant. But I don't think its the people's musical tastes that are driving what they do..its more the other way around.

The music industry right now is much like fast food. You have McDonald's, Burger King, and Wendy's, all of which is a slight variation of the same crap. None of it is very nutritious but its quick and easy and can be marketed to the masses easily. But eventually, people realize how crappy this stuff is to ingest all of the time, so they start demanding healthier choices...low and behold, McDonalds starts a "healthy choices" menu. The same thing is starting to happen in music. Music fans are being force fed the same old crap and they want better alternatives.

If you think the music being pushed through mainstream outlets is good, then good for you, you are living in a musical golden age. But all I need to do is compare MuchMusic now to what it was 10-15 years ago...remember, when they actually played "music videos"? Just goes to show that when a station that is supposed to be dedicated to music, now barely shows a video, how diluted the options for people have become.