How do I get out of the "Friend Zone?" Help!!!

[arloiginla]

Originally Posted by jammies

Well I'm a bit late and all the good jokes are gone, so I guess I'll give serious advice:

There's nothing like straight-up honesty. That being said, there are different ways to express honesty, and just like with sex, women prefer their honesty to come after some foreplay (verbal, in this case). So try to lead the conversation into an area where you're talking about relationships, and personal feelings, and get her into the right emotional mood before asking, "Do you ever think about us getting together one day? I mean, we get along so well and you are so unbelievably sexy, I don't think it's any real surprise to you that I've thought about it - but have you?"

The key, though, is making sure you don't come across as someone who is going to be devastated if the answer comes back as no. Most women aren't down with emotionally needy dudes (they've got girlfriends for that), and you being that way is a sure trip out of the Friend Zone into the "used to be my friend but now gives off the loser vibe" zone. If she says no, just act cool, no matter how much it really hurts, and tell her that if she ever changes her mind, to let you know. Then ask her another question leading back to whatever relationship issue you were discussing before your question, and smooth over the awkwardness. If she says yes, you're in!

Even if she does says no, you've at least set yourself up for the long game. You've expressed an interest, and being a woman, she'll never forget that and you may be surprised down the road. Maybe she has another guy she's currently infatuated with, and once that wears off, she'll refixate on you. Maybe she was just caught offguard by your interest and didn't know how to react. Or maybe she's just a whacked out psycho like 99% of women, and she will change her mind for no discernable reason at all.

You never know, so it's better to keep the friendship going if you can, 'cause at worst, you can still hang out with her, and if she is hot as you say, that's an invaluable aid in picking up other women who see you with her - dem dames is crazy that way!

I really appreciate this advice - it is well-thought-out, mature and helpful. Then again perhaps it just seemed good in stark contrast after reading flylock shox's take two posts later

And yes, she is unbelievably hot. She makes the pole-vaulter Allison Stokke look like baboon. I can hardly believe she is single and know there's no way it's going to stay that way, so I figure if I don't make my move now I'll lose out and kick myself about it later.

[Buff]

Try to picture your friendship with her in 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, etc. if you were to keep things as they are right now. If you see the two of you growing apart then are you willing to risk speeding up that process by trying to follow your heart?

I was in the same situation as you. What did I do? I was a chicken. Eventually we drifted apart and I didn't have the friend nor the chance to have more than the friend. I was crushed and it took me a while to get over it. A looong while. I was able to forget about her as other girls came into my life, but I wasn't able to completely drop the notion of us getting together until I met my wife. I found it harder to get over a girl I never had than any girl I did get.


I'm not trying to tell you to go for it. I'm just giving you one man's experiences of not going for it. I didn't go for it, and when I lost the chance to go for it, as well as the friend (eventually) I was miserable. Fortunately for me I met the woman for me and I no longer care about the "what if" questions.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by calf

I agree. The "busy" line, in my experience at least, is a crock. It means she's not into you, and she's using it as a way to put you off until you get frustrated with how busy she is, and you move on. Or she finds someone she's actually willing to make time for out of her "busy" schedule. IMO, she's just trying to let you down easy, without actually having to do the dirty work. But maybe not all girls are the same...

She's not always busy but for the last few months she has been. She's an accountant and right now where she works pretty much her and another woman are the only accountants with experience so they've been handed the workload of other accountants who have quit. She also is working towards the highest level of accounting you can get so she takes online courses and when it comes time to study for an exam she doesn't have much free time.

And don't get me wrong she does try and make time for me. We try and see each other a much as possible and most of the time it's her asking me to do things. But until things get better at work I don't think she has the time she would want to try and start a new relationship. There's been many days where she's worked 12-14 hour shifts.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Buff

I found it harder to get over a girl I never had than any girl I did get.

True dat. You're much less likely to regret your failures in life than the times you chickened out and never tried.

And, if you at least make the effort, when you die, God will pat you on the shoulder, pin a "participant" ribbon on you and say, "That'll do donkey. That'll do."

I say, participate with this girl. What do you really have to lose?

[gallione11]

Hmm, this sounds a bit familiar. I was the one who posted that "Personal Dilemma" thread about 2 months ago, where I'm currently happy with my current GF but couldn't get another girl out of my head. We had been work friends for the previous 4-6 months. I tried reading signs from her for a month or so afterwards, but that isn't always the best way. For one, the girl can send mixed signals quite frequently, and that just ends up making it harder to determine. Secondly, she might be confused herself and not sure what she wants.

I ended up being somewhat blunt to her about my interest in her near the end of last month. I wasn't asking her out, but just letting her know I was interested in pursuing something more than a friendship if she was willing. The result? She wasn't interested. I'm not 100% sure if she meant just with me though for a number of reasons. The two most important being one -- she's not interested in a relationship at all right now, and two -- she still acts really damn flirty towards me... in fact, it has increased since the talk. However, she also informed me of one thing that kind of turned me off to her in the relationship sense; she's a religious person, following a very cultish one in my opinion. Me, being agnostic, makes that a hard sell.

Now, given your situation, and that you have known her for years makes me doubt you would run into something like that. However, I would suggest definitely talking to her about it. Depending on how daring you feel, either ask her out straight up or do what I did and just let her know you would be interested in more. Yes, there will be awkwardness if she says no... How long it lasts depends on the two of you. In my case, it lasted less than a week and that was mainly my fault because I was trying to come to terms with the fact that nothing would ever happen with her. The timing was quite good, however, as I took a 9 day vacation about 5 days after we had the talk. We actually e-mailed each other almost daily during the vacation to sort some things out and since then we are becoming better and better friends.

I know I'm probably venturing into the dreading "Friend Zone" but meh, I like her a lot as a friend too. And yes, there still is that nagging little hope that someday something might happen, but it's not nearly as consuming as it was before we had the talk. Although it recently took a bit of a jump as I found out she's still a virgin. Never had one of those before.

Anyways, just talk to her about it. If she's really a good friend, you guys can work through the awkwardness if it doesn't turn out the way you hope for. And honestly, in some ways it will become much easier for you, since you will not be hiding anything anymore.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Inferno

She's not always busy but for the last few months she has been. She's an accountant and right now where she works pretty much her and another woman are the only accountants with experience so they've been handed the workload of other accountants who have quit. She also is working towards the highest level of accounting you can get so she takes online courses and when it comes time to study for an exam she doesn't have much free time.

And don't get me wrong she does try and make time for me. We try and see each other a much as possible and most of the time it's her asking me to do things. But until things get better at work I don't think she has the time she would want to try and start a new relationship. There's been many days where she's worked 12-14 hour shifts.

You should have told me she was doing CASB...I take it back I can only imagine work + that + daughter..

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Ugh... vomit...

There's a Marilyn Manson song that's pretty much on point for her situation. As I recall, the lyrics go something like "I'm not in love, but I'm gonna #$*k you, til somebody better comes along..."

You're just getting a more figurative version of the #$*king than that which Manson envisioned.

If I were you, I'd get the hell away from that asap - it's the type of thing that will tie up your attention and your efforts pointlessly, and stop you from finding someone who doesn't just see you as a potential back up plan. Move along.

Her biggest problem and she's admitted it is she pushes away when she gets too close. She's not sure whether or not it's because she hasn't found the right guy or it's because she's not the relationship type.

When we first started talking about us possibly started something that was what she said scared her with me. She didn't want us getting close and then she ends up pushing away and breaking my heart. But I told her that I know that no relationship is guaranteed to work but I also know that no relationship is guaranteed not to work and that there's a chance she might not push away from me.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Her biggest problem and she's admitted it is she pushes away when she gets too close. She's not sure whether or not it's because she hasn't found the right guy or it's because she's not the relationship type.

When we first started talking about us possibly started something that was what she said scared her with me. She didn't want us getting close and then she ends up pushing away and breaking my heart. But I told her that I know that no relationship is guaranteed to work but I also know that no relationship is guaranteed not to work and that there's a chance she might not push away from me.

Well, it seems to me that she's either deliberately messing with you and stringing you along because it makes her feel good about herself, or she's really just uncertain how she feels about you and is internally unhappy. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, as you're doing, let's go with the latter. Either way though, one thing is certain: it's your heart that's out in the open, and she's leaving it hanging. Hanging in the open isn't good for hearts. Her intentions may be good, and she may be genuinely troubled by how she feels and how her feelings and actions affect you, but that isn't going to change the fact that you're the one who's going to end up getting hurt by this.

Sounds to me like you're a nice guy who really cares about this girl and is doing everything he can to respect her feelings. And maybe she's a nice girl who's really confused and really doesn't mean to hurt anybody. But the fact of the matter is, you ARE going to get hurt in this scenario. If you can accept that, keep your feelings invested in her and maybe it'll all pan out in the end. If you can't, or if you're able to detach yourself emotionally from the situation and view it analytically, you need to step back, realize you're a good guy and that there are lots of good girls in the world who are looking for you, and then go out there and introduce yourself to one.

But then, what the hell do I know.

[Hack&Lube]

Yikes, this brings back very bad memories (and I wish I had the presence of mind to consult CP of all places then). Yes, it can be very hard to get over somebody you could never get, and it can be even worse for friendships. I can't help but sense a broken heart coming up shortly.

The best advice I can give you is this...don't second guess yourself and don't get into the trap of always wondering what she is thinking. If it's going to be serious make sure you are confident and that your own life is all together right and going places. That will make you all the more attractive. Now all you have to due is pursue. Just pursue like nothing else in the world and hope she gives in eventually. Don't pull back when she draws back, that's her natural instinct. Don't be too hard but you have to move forward always. Even the strongest friendship can't remain platonic if there is a single spark of anything there and one person just sticks with it. But always make sure that she knows that whatever the reply is, that it won't devastate you (even if it will), often that sense of guilt in her will push her away from you more than anything and be your ultimate downfall.

As for just forgetting about it and moving on...ask yourself if your friendship is worth more than what you could have. It does however, sound like you will get hurt nomatter what so it's sort of a no win situation unless you really work for it. I can only say it'll hurt even more if you wait too long and somebody else comes into the picture. Even if that happens, make sure you at least appear cool and confortable and remain friends and you'll always have a chance in the long run. As soon as you make her feel the slightest bit bad or guilty, she'll start to push you away because she doesn't want to hurt you and that will end up being far worse in the long term.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

I really appreciate this advice - it is well-thought-out, mature and helpful. Then again perhaps it just seemed good in stark contrast after reading flylock shox's take two posts later

You are welcome.

Originally Posted by arloiginla

And yes, she is unbelievably hot. She makes the pole-vaulter Allison Stokke look like baboon. I can hardly believe she is single and know there's no way it's going to stay that way, so I figure if I don't make my move now I'll lose out and kick myself about it later.

How long has she been single? Perhaps she is in the same position you are in - wondering if she should say something, but afraid to make a fool of herself.

The best advice I ever got was from my buddy, who has always been successful with just about any woman he decided he wanted to out with - and that was just about any reasonably attractive woman. When I asked him how he was so consistently successful, he told me, "You just have to realize that women are thinking the same dirty thoughts men are, they are just better at hiding it. So don't go talking to a woman wondering if she wants to sleep with you, assume that she does and work on just getting her to admit it to you."

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Well, it seems to me that she's either deliberately messing with you and stringing you along because it makes her feel good about herself, or she's really just uncertain how she feels about you and is internally unhappy. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, as you're doing, let's go with the latter. Either way though, one thing is certain: it's your heart that's out in the open, and she's leaving it hanging. Hanging in the open isn't good for hearts. Her intentions may be good, and she may be genuinely troubled by how she feels and how her feelings and actions affect you, but that isn't going to change the fact that you're the one who's going to end up getting hurt by this.

Sounds to me like you're a nice guy who really cares about this girl and is doing everything he can to respect her feelings. And maybe she's a nice girl who's really confused and really doesn't mean to hurt anybody. But the fact of the matter is, you ARE going to get hurt in this scenario. If you can accept that, keep your feelings invested in her and maybe it'll all pan out in the end. If you can't, or if you're able to detach yourself emotionally from the situation and view it analytically, you need to step back, realize you're a good guy and that there are lots of good girls in the world who are looking for you, and then go out there and introduce yourself to one.

But then, what the hell do I know.

If she was messing with me I don't think she would have got upset like she did when she thought I hated her for saying things like she was done with guys when she had two of her friends on the same night demand she be their girlfriend and then the next day her ex-roommate cry all day and beg her to marry him three times. That's the day she told me on MSN that she loved me and she hoped that one day I would forgive her because she figured I was just ignoring her but I was really at work. It took her a couple days but she realized she had unfairly painted me with the same brush as them and that I didn't deserve that.

I think the biggest thing that confuses her is like you said not wanting to hurt anyone. I think there's multiple guys that she likes alot and would consider a good choice if she decides she wants a relationship but she doesn't know which one is the right choice and doesn't want to hurt the others. But one thing she has told me is that unlike some other guys I've accepted her past and the problems she had and that I don't hold it against her and that means alot to her because your past makes you the person you are today and if your boyfriend or girlfriend cant accept that the relationship will suffer.

As far as me getting hurt it's happened before with her but she just didn't know it cause I never told her how I feel for her. Should I end up getting hurt again it would suck but atleast I could live with myself knowing that I atleast tried. I think giving up on this now without knowing for sure my chances are done would be a huge mistake and something that I would regret for the rest of my life.

[Gugstanley]

I am jumping into this late. The way I see it you might as well go for it. If she gets into a serious relationship she won't have time for you anyway. Give it a go and if it works great. If not your friendship wouldn't stay this strong if she marries another guy.

Stop making excuses and report back on how it went.

[Nuje]

I'm here late too. Arlo, about 3 years since you've known her? Been there! Done that! Failed miserably. I basically did everything wrong that was possible.

Do NOT tell her how you feel!
If you're flirting in a joking way, kick it up. I've kissed girls and convinced them that I was just doing it for a joke.
The drunk idea isn't terrible either. It is quite a gamble though.

The unfortunate part with these situations is, if you fail, that's pretty much it. It could compromise the friendship, but I find that I never know if he's in it for the intellectuality or the rest of it, until the intellectuality is gone. Most guys I know agree with me, just the way we are. In my situation, once I got over the girl in question, I found, she's not as awesome as I thought she was.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I think the Ladder Theory applies here. Once you're knocked onto the friendship ladder, that's pretty much all she wrote.

The only exception I know of is if the girl is with a guy she's not happy with, she might have you in the friend list because she has to break up with this other guy first. But you'd know. Women who want to be more than just friends tend to send out a lot of signs.

The ladder theory is the fast track method to landing yourself a gold digging princess. Women of substance don't meet the narrow definitions that the LT uses to base it's guidance on. Unless you want a trophy wife, stay away from the LT.

Just my thoughts.

[Jason14h]

Dick in a box? Or did you already get her a Xmas gift?

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Yikes, this brings back very bad memories (and I wish I had the presence of mind to consult CP of all places then).

Gotta be careful when seeking advice, from a forum, friend or otherwise. Last time I did that, I think I had already made the decision in my mind of what I was going to do, and was simply looking for confirmation, maybe that extra vote of confidence. I just didn't have the sense of mind to realize that I had made my decision already hahah. Denial is friggin' sweet.

[foofighter15]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

Sorry, thought you started the thread... but don't do it any way!

Haha, as much as I get stuck in the friend zone, its never for long as I'm a horrible friend so that shoulda been your first hint

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Okay, you can ask most of my friends and they'll tell you that I'm a pretty straight forward guy. Hell on a recent road trip I used this little diddy "Hey my friends right there are trying to figure out how to get you girls to come to the bar with us, and they're being pussies about it, so we're going to this piano bar down the street, do you want to come?" It worked (ask Hulkrogan if you don't believe me, also, I'm still waiting for that thank you Hulk).

Many thanks, and may the new year bring you many skilled Bravo Juliets my friend.


I've been in the exact same situation. I told the girl how I felt, crashed and burned, and it sucked. Things were awkward for a few months, we didn't really talk or hang out for a while, even though we'd been seeing eachother all the time before. We started talking again down the road, and gradually became really good friends again, except this time I didn't have the constant desire to bang her which really made things a whole lot better.

You can tell yourself like Inferno is that if something else comes along you'll take it, but it's not really true. Everyone in this situation is secretely holding out hope and not pursuing other options to the extent they would without the chick friend they want to bang.

Inferno, this girl sounds like the type that if you seperate yourself from her for a while, you'll realize she's crazy and stringing you along. Get the funk out before you look back and realize you wasted altogether too much time on someone who's a complete nut job, and not the good kind of nut job that you aren't getting from her.

[ZDogg]

My advice....
Discuss how you don't want to be old and single. Make sure to mention how miserable it would be to be alone and never share a special connection with anyone (use an example if possible). After setting up that situation say something alone the lines of "if we are still single at 25 we should hook up (or get married)".

The reply will let you know the next move.
She says: Why wait until then!
Response: Make your move shes ready to give it a go.

She says: Ok, I don't want to be old and alone too.
Response: Back off and reassess in the future. If you are a serious creep sabotage all her future relationships...

She says: I'd be happy if I was still 25 and single or she laughs at you.
Response: Back off and just get her to continually hook you up with her hot friends (cause hot chicks have hot friends). Make sure you perform well in bed with these chicks so it creats a stigma about what she can't have. Eventually she may want to see what they were talking about.

Its a good way to test the waters. If I were you I wouldn't risk losing the eternal fountain of hot chicks (her friends) by asking her straight up. More often than not it will get akward.

[The Fonz]

Wow, lots of negative nancy's replying to the original post.

If she says no, it won't ruin your friendship unless you let it ruin the friendship. I had been best friends with a girl my whole life, seriously....from age 5 till now. We grew up together, were in the same class, her dad coached our hockey team and she was even on my line! After we graduated I started to like her, a lot, and we were spending a lot of time together. I eventually told her that I liked her and I wanted to know where this was heading, and she said "Really? I'm so sorry....I had no idea. I don't think of us like that"....it sucked, but I didn't let it bother me. I seen her the next day and pretended it never happened, so did she. We're still great friends today, nothing has changed. I've got a girlfriend, she's got a boyfriend, everyone's happy.

I just wanted to say that it doesn't have to ruin your friendship. It didn't affect mine.