MLB - The Mitchell Report

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Saw a quote on sportsnet news, Gregg Zaun outright denied it.

Zaun did issue a quote through the team later last night, saying: "I am stunned by the allegations set forth in Senator Mitchell's report. I emphatically deny these allegations but am not prepared to comment further at this time."

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

A corked bat is far far different from a person who throws on artificial muscle and basically changes the physics of his body. If anything the records should be more amazing in those days because they didn't concern themselves with body nutrition, and they didn't have trainers living at their house.

There's a difference between natural talent and talent bought on line.





How does that matter? Babe Ruth would probably have a stroke because there was more then three types of beer.

Cheating is cheating and greed is greed. I know people like to think humans are better now than they were in the past but that's one of the biggest jokes you will ever hear. As for those guys that are so called clean where are they/where were they in pointing the finger at those who were( and you bloody well know they knew). There are NO innocents in the picture.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by habernac

Zaun did issue a quote through the team later last night, saying: "I am stunned by the allegations set forth in Senator Mitchell's report. I emphatically deny these allegations but am not prepared to comment further at this time."

You don't actually expect these guys to own up to doing it do you? Deny and hire good lawyers. Maybe if you have to to get into the hall of fame admit a tiny fraction of what was done and act contrite(hire an acting coach first to practice the scene).

Face it nobody gives a crap about it. The attendance levels are at at all time high for baseball and nobody other than the dumbest of the dumb dosen't know the players are on a plethora of substances!!!

The whole thing is just a farce to get shut up Congress. You know Congress which is the greatest do nothing organization in the world other than the UN and has to try and appear to be doing something once in a while. 20 million bucks so Selig can say "Now, now boys this just ain't right and I will act". LOL watch him hammer Bonds and then good old Sharpton can jump in and raise the race card to deflect investigations into his goings on. All just a game with all of them participating in one way or another.

[habernac]

People do give a crap or we wouldn't be having a discussion about it, Johnny.

[habernac]

But I do agree that Selig only "acted" because the government forced his hand. He's a joke of a commisionner and always has been.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by habernac

But I do agree that Selig only "acted" because the government forced his hand. He's a joke of a commisionner and always has been.

The only thing that gets their attention is a threat to the MLB anti-trust exemption.

[Prototype]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Out of all of this, what really comes to my mind is how amazing certain players, most esspecially Ken Griffey Jr. have been over the course of their careers while playing against a pack of steriod injecting animals. Sure, there is a chance guys like Griff and Thomas have juiced but never been found out, but looking at what they have said and done over the years I would highly, highly doubt it. I mean hell, if we could throw out the #'s of all the juicers Griff would be one of the very best ever, not to mention to fact he has been riddled with injuries for years. I am going out and buying a Griffey jersey before Christmas, not even kidding. Getting behind a guy like Griff or FT is the only way thinking about the MLB doesnt make me feel dirty.

I was thinking the same thing this morning, how impressive some of the accomplishments of non-listed players are. Another name I'd throw out there is Ricky Henderson. Now, I don't know if they talked about former players in this report, there was some talk that Cal Jr. was to be on the list, and Big Mac. But if Ricky was clean, his speed, and bat were impresive as well.

I'm actually surprised at two things at this point. a) That A-Rod wasn't listed. I remember seeing him play as a Calgary Cannon, and he was a bean pole. I understand that you can bulk up without drugs, but there's just something about the guy that makes me surprised that he didn't make the list. b) That Clemmons is taking the bulk of the press on this. There's a fricken long list there, and he seems to be the focus. I guess every news story needs a poster boy, but they all are accused of cheating... not just the Rocket. Not trying to defend the guy, but this story is bigger than Roger Clemmons.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by habernac

People do give a crap or we wouldn't be having a discussion about it, Johnny.

People on message boards are irrelevant. Only ones that count are the ones that buy tickets. It ain't stoppin them whatsoever and that's the only ones MLB cares about.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by troutman

This is not true - it was against MLB rules (as Mitchell describes in the report) and it was always illegal in the US to possess steroids without a prescription.

No player is going to sue - they did it.

Here's the quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Milstein from Sports Law Blog

First, despite what Mitchell says, baseball had no policy or regulation expressly banning steroids until September 2002, did not have testing with penalties until 2004 and did not ban HGH until 2005. Should Mark McGwire, for example, be vilified for taking androstenedione, a supplement that produced testosterone, when it could have been bought at the time over the counter by anyone and, of course, did not violate MLB rules?

Here's what Mitchell wrote:

Originally Posted by Mithcell Report at page 18

There is a widespread misconception that the use of steroids and other
performance enhancing substances, such as human growth hormone, was not prohibited in Major League Baseball before the inclusion of the joint drug program in the 2002 Basic Agreement. In fact, as early as 1991 baseball’s drug policy expressly prohibited the use of “all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual … does not have a prescription.”53 Even before then, however, the use of any prescription drug without a valid prescription was prohibited in baseball, and even earlier under federal law. In 1971, baseball’s drug policy required compliance with federal, state, and local drug laws and directed baseball’s athletic trainers that anabolic steroids should only be provided to players under a physician’s guidance.54

Illegal drugs, including steroids, may have been against MLB's drug policies long before 2002. However, possession or use of HGH was not. That didn't attract the attention of MLB until the media made a big deal about a jar of it in Mark McGwire's locker in 1998 (Mitchell Report at page 22).

Originally Posted by Mitchell Report at page 20

In addition, the unlawful distribution of human growth hormone was classified as a felony punishable by up to five years imprisonment (or up to ten years imprisonment for distribution to individuals under the age of 18). Those penalties also applied to distribution of human growth hormone for a use other than treatment of a disease or as otherwise expressly approved by the Food and Drug Administration.63 Human growth hormone has never been approved by the FDA for cosmetic, anti-aging, or athletic performance purposes.64 Human growth hormone was not included with steroids as a Schedule III controlled substance, however, meaning that under current federal law, there is no criminal penalty for simple possession of HGH.65 Several states have regulated human growth hormone as a controlled substance, however, under their own versions of the Controlled Substances Act.66

Subsequently, MLB commissioned a study into HGH and other legal steroid precursors. They weren't banned by MLB until much later.

My point? At least in the case of McGwire's use of HGH prior to MLB officially banning the substance, he wasn't doing anything against the law or against MLB rules. This says nothing, of course, about the dozens of other players named in the Report.

[habernac]

McGwire was using androstenedione, not HGH.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Prottotype

I was thinking the same thing this morning, how impressive some of the accomplishments of non-listed players are. Another name I'd throw out there is Ricky Henderson. Now, I don't know if they talked about former players in this report, there was some talk that Cal Jr. was to be on the list, and Big Mac. But if Ricky was clean, his speed, and bat were impresive as well.

I'm actually surprised at two things at this point. a) That A-Rod wasn't listed. I remember seeing him play as a Calgary Cannon, and he was a bean pole. I understand that you can bulk up without drugs, but there's just something about the guy that makes me surprised that he didn't make the list. b) That Clemmons is taking the bulk of the press on this. There's a fricken long list there, and he seems to be the focus. I guess every news story needs a poster boy, but they all are accused of cheating... not just the Rocket. Not trying to defend the guy, but this story is bigger than Roger Clemmons.

The report left out at least a few names. Based on information from Radomski, for instance, Mitchell declined to name three players:

Originally Posted by Mitchell Report at page 146

I did not include in this report the names of three players to whom Radomski said he sold performance enhancing substances: two of them because the players had retired from Major League Baseball by the time of the alleged sales; and one of them because the player admitted that he had purchased and possessed the substances but denied that he had used them and his version of events was corroborated by other credible evidence.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by habernac

McGwire was using androstenedione, not HGH.

Good point. Still, andro wasn't included in the definition of an anabolic steroid until 2004. During the 1998 season, they were still considered supplements and legal to purchase over the counter.

Originally Posted by Mitchell Report at page 24

In October 2004, Congress passed the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004, which amended the definition of “anabolic steroid” under the Controlled Substances Act to include a number of supplements considered to be steroid precursors, including androstenedione, but not DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) – another steroid precursor that is closely related to androstenedione – and granted authority to the Drug Enforcement Administration to add other steroid precursors to that definition in the future.

[troutman]

^^^^

I would not be surprised if McGwire was taking andro, garden variety steroids, horse steroids, HGH, you name it . . .

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by troutman

^^^^

I would not be surprised if McGwire was taking andro, garden variety steroids, horse steroids, HGH, you name it . . .

Oh me too.

Leaves his Andro in his locker and its seen - hmm you guys think he planned it? That dude knew what was coming, he wasn't dumb. He made sure to have the Andro found(IMO) and then looked like a "stand up guy" owning up to taking it.

Andro is not something that most bodybuilding types(which Big Mac was, despite his resume having said "professional baseball player") take by itself. Like HGH, it is something most commonly used in a "stack", in that "stack" there is likely some higher potency anabolic compounds that really kick that crap out of the body.

Like Bariod and his 40 pounf offseason. There is no FRICKEN way he was just using the "clear and the cream". He probably drank a little clear and rubbed on a little cream to make himself feel better after sticking a 12 inch needle full of Anadrol or Dianabol in his bulging swollen arse.

[Trojan97]

What the hell was Mo Vaughn doing taking 'roids?? guy was like 400 pounds on pure fatness, somebody must have forgot to tell him that it helps to hit the gym a little bit if ur gonna pump that stuff into your body.

[ricosuave]

heh heh, dick pound

Originally Posted by kipperfan

I have always known that piece of dirty garbage Clemons has been juicing for years. I hope a mountain of evidence surfaces in regards to his usage so he can be given the Pete Rose treatment and banned from the game forever, and he can take Bariod with him.

i agree, cant stand that arrogant piece of trash, deciding if he wants to come back and pitch another season for 'only' 22 million, and naming all his kids after strikeouts, geez what a massive ego - hate him, always have

[troutman]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

heh heh, dick pound



i agree, cant stand that arrogant piece of trash, deciding if he wants to come back and pick another season for 'only' 22 million, and naming all his kids after strikeouts, geez what a massive ego - hate him, always have

His wife on the other hand - very nice!

[Temporary_User]

I havent been following this too closely...
I havent read the report, nor do I plan to. I did however scan through the list of names from the link posted...
From the very few things I've read, it seems a few teams turned a blind eye or even encouraged this a bit more than others. How is each team involved in this?
I'm a Mariner's fan, I sadly saw a few M's on the list, how do they stack up compared to other teams? which team would people say was the worst?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

heh heh, dick pound



i agree, cant stand that arrogant piece of trash, deciding if he wants to come back and pitch another season for 'only' 22 million, and naming all his kids after strikeouts, geez what a massive ego - hate him, always have

Isn't that the truth! With Clemens it's all about me and everyone else comes second. It's a turn off to see players make a drama production of wether they're going to come back or not. lol it's like an ongoing soap opera. They don't know wether to crap or get off the pot.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

I havent been following this too closely...
I havent read the report, nor do I plan to. I did however scan through the list of names from the link posted...
From the very few things I've read, it seems a few teams turned a blind eye or even encouraged this a bit more than others. How is each team involved in this?
I'm a Mariner's fan, I sadly saw a few M's on the list, how do they stack up compared to other teams? which team would people say was the worst?

Well these names are only from a few sources (like 3-5 people), so this isn't comprehensive. Heck, some of the names may not even be true since there is quite a bit of hear-say involved in a few of the names (while others they have signed receipts).

And the teams and commissioner are very culpable. Some of these reports specifically mentioned how a team clubhouse manager or a traveling manager would "accidentally" discover needles and vials, report to the commissioners office, be told the commissioners office will investigate, then hear nothing back. Other managers told staff to just forget about it because it was none of their business (Tom Kelly - Twins).

Much of this evidence in this report wouldn't be good enough for court. But that said, there is plenty of smoke from only speaking to a few people. With hundreds of players and staff at the MLB level, and untold thousands more in the minors.

The real test is what happens now. Baseball seems to be saying, "Lets now go forward with a clean slate". But I don't see that they have done anything yet. They had someone create a nice document. Beyond that, nothing so far.