The top city in Canada? Calgary

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by OracleOfCalgary

At least they aren't stuck living in a tiny cement box where all you can see is cement and glass as far as the eye can see...

Indeed I would go bonkers living in a box downtown. I can't don't understand how people could like that.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Indeed I would go bonkers living in a box downtown. I can't don't understand how people could like that.

And my wife and I would go bonkers living in a soulless planned "community"* in the suburbs. To each his own...

*and I use that term very loosely, since from what I've seen of the suburbs in Calgary, there's very little community at all in the traditional sense of the word.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by OracleOfCalgary

At least they aren't stuck living in a tiny cement box where all you can see is cement and glass as far as the eye can see...

I love the fact that I can get downstairs and walk to work in the morning, never have to shovel walks, have security 24/7, and not have to pay for a vehicle which damages the environment.

Oh, and my cement box has all the furnishings of a regular home, including a sky view of downtown. So really, it's not that bad. =)

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I love the fact that I can get downstairs and walk to work in the morning, never have to shovel walks, have security 24/7, and not have to pay for a vehicle which damages the environment.

Oh, and my cement box has all the furnishings of a regular home, including a sky view of downtown. So really, it's not that bad. =)

++

[Edit]
And it's not just work that you can walk to...you can walk (or take transit in rare cases) everywhere. People in Calgary are shocked when I tell them that I don't own a vehicle. They have absolutely no idea how anyone could function in this city without one, yet I've never once felt the need for it.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

And my wife and I would go bonkers living in a soulless planned "community"* in the suburbs. To each his own...

*and I use that term very loosely, since from what I've seen of the suburbs in Calgary, there's very little community at all in the traditional sense of the word.

Soulless? Check out this neighbourhood:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22151184/

The most popular address on Cedar Ridge Drive is Jim Trulock’s split-level home, which has a group sex room and attracts as many as 100 people to swinger parties featuring “Naked Twister” nights.

I suppose I live in a suburb. But I can drive to the inner city in 15 minutes, any time I want that "experience". What's the big deal? CGY is still a relatively small city.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

++

[Edit]
And it's not just work that you can walk to...you can walk (or take transit in rare cases) everywhere. People in Calgary are shocked when I tell them that I don't own a vehicle. They have absolutely no idea how anyone could function in this city without one, yet I've never once felt the need for it.

its pretty easy, i went 6 years without a car, but i lived in Mission..was able to walk to work, close to all services ect...

But some people have kids, want a yard and cant afford a house in the inner city...which are pretty pricey in some areas...

[MarchHare]

But some people have kids, want a yard

Where I grew up in the suburbs of Saint John, our back yard was large enough to play soccer or baseball. There was at least 50' between houses. It was a huge culture shock when I arrived in Calgary and saw all these identical houses two feet apart with tiny little "yards".

Anyway, I don't begrudge people who want to live in the suburbs, but it certainly isn't for me. I would absolutely despise living there.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

And it also doesnt mean much..Vancouver density is much greater than Calgary...they still suffer from the same issues that are pinned on urban sprawl...since most of the working class cant afford to live in the city, they all come in from the burbs..Abby, Poco, Pitt Meadows, Surrey ect...Same with NYC...Toronto...etc..

Is that so?

Directly from StatsCan:

---------------------DENSITY----------LAND AREA (SQ.KM)---------RATIO
Calgary (City): -----1,360.2/km² --------------726.5 ---------------1.87
Vancouver(City): ---5,039.0/km² -------------114.71 ---------------44.0

Calgary's urban sprawl is assumedly MUCH, MUCH bigger. Each Calgarian has approximately 24x as much space as a Vancouverite does, given City boundaries and population.

Let's do a Metropolitan Area calculation as well for comparison's sake:

---------------------DENSITY----------LAND AREA (SQ.KM)---------RATIO
Calgary (Metro): -----211.3/km² ------------5107.43 ---------------0.041
Vancouver (Metro): --735.6/km² ------------2877.36 ---------------0.256

Calgary's urban sprawl is, again, assumedly MUCH, MUCH bigger. Each Calgarian has approximately 6x as much space as a Vancouverite does, given each City's Metro Area boundaries and population.

Problems associated with urban sprawl? Perhaps, but not really what I was trying to discuss.

Extent of urban sprawl? Calgary wins this HANDS DOWN.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

++

[Edit]
And it's not just work that you can walk to...you can walk (or take transit in rare cases) everywhere. People in Calgary are shocked when I tell them that I don't own a vehicle. They have absolutely no idea how anyone could function in this city without one, yet I've never once felt the need for it.

I find the number of people using the buses is high, but not enough of a detriment to consider driving. Plus, the buses seem to move faster than the vehicles, given they usually have the right lane available to them anyways in the morning and after work. Really, it's like getting a personal chauffeur.

I see Calgarians commuting with only ONE person in their vehicles, and I'm appalled. Where is the car pooling? Where are the energy-saving vehicles? We consume so much, it's ridiculous, really.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Sure..no worse than most other cities, which is my point..

welcome to the prairies

For the second time, no one is saying it is any worse than other cities (although an argument could likely be made saying is it). Are you saying that as long as the city is no worse than other cities, it's OK? I have (had?) higher expectations than that.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Muta

Extent of urban sprawl? Calgary wins this HANDS DOWN.

Outside of rush hour, anybody could drive from any part of CGY to downtown in 20-25 minutes. You could not say the same for people that live in Surrey or Port Moody.

[OracleOfCalgary]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

And my wife and I would go bonkers living in a soulless planned "community"* in the suburbs. To each his own...

*and I use that term very loosely, since from what I've seen of the suburbs in Calgary, there's very little community at all in the traditional sense of the word.

That 's the PC lie that people like you like to believe. Fact is I know everyone on my block and we routinely attend social gatherings with our neighbours. I have lived in a wide variety of neighbourhoods in a variety of housing types in a variety of cities and this is the strongest sense of community I have ever felt.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by OracleOfCalgary

That 's the PC lie that people like you like to believe. Fact is I know everyone on my block and we routinely attend social gatherings with our neighbours. I have lived in a wide variety of neighbourhoods in a variety of housing types in a variety of cities and this is the strongest sense of community I have ever felt.

That is definitely not the case in most communities. Most people are spending too much time working and driving to afford community activities, let alone spend time with their family and to put their feet up.

Hillhurst, for example, has next to no community spirit left. When I was a kid, there were block parties, christmas caroling, and all that jazz. Now there's nothing, and the residents are getting old and complacent about the whole thing.

[OracleOfCalgary]

Originally Posted by Muta

Is that so?


Calgary's urban sprawl is, again, assumedly MUCH, MUCH bigger. Each Calgarian has approximately 6x as much space as a Vancouverite does, given each City's Metro Area boundaries and population.

Problems associated with urban sprawl? Perhaps, but not really what I was trying to discuss.

Extent of urban sprawl? Calgary wins this HANDS DOWN.

Langley to downtown Vancouver, 54.4km:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&hl=en...0454&z=10&om=1

Okotoks to downtown Calgary, 46.4km:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&hl=en...&cd=1&z=9&om=1

[Muta]

Originally Posted by troutman

Outside of rush hour, anybody could drive from any part of CGY to downtown in 20-25 minutes. You could not say the same for people that live in Surrey or Port Moody.

Well, there could be a whole handful of reasons for that, if that is indeed true. Perhaps public transit needs to be improved in these greater Vancouver areas; perhaps there's too much of a reliance of personal vehicles there; perhaps the infrastructure isn't up to par as to what it should be there. Perhaps troutman just doesn't know the shortcuts in BC...

Whatever it is, driving isn't the only issue that urban sprawl brings about, but I digress. I'm sure you're well aware of that.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That is definitely not the case in most communities. Most people are spending too much time working and driving to afford community activities, let alone spend time with their family and to put their feet up.

Hillhurst, for example, has next to no community spirit left. When I was a kid, there were block parties, christmas caroling, and all that jazz. Now there's nothing, and the residents are getting old and complacent about the whole thing.

while that's a fair point that may be symptomatic of modern society (in every city) than a damnation of Calgary suburbs. heck Hillhurst isn't exactly suburbia (not that you are claiming it is)

I think its a fair point in response to the statement that all of Calgary's current suburbs are soul-less places where people don't know each other. that hasn't been my recent experience either

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by OracleOfCalgary

That 's the PC lie that people like you like to believe. Fact is I know everyone on my block and we routinely attend social gatherings with our neighbours. I have lived in a wide variety of neighbourhoods in a variety of housing types in a variety of cities and this is the strongest sense of community I have ever felt.

Just because you know your neighbours doesn't mean it's an actual community. Kensington, Mission, Bridgeland...those neighbourhoods have character. Country Hills, Evergreen, Chaparral, etc...not so much. They're nothing more than bland, identical homes built two feet away from each other on bland, identical cul-de-sacs.

Don't get me wrong, if you like living in that kind of neighbourhood, lucky you, because Calgary has plenty to choose from. That kind of lifestyle is certainly not for me, though.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by Muta

Is that so?

Directly from StatsCan:

---------------------DENSITY----------LAND AREA (SQ.KM)---------RATIO
Calgary (City): -----1,360.2/km² --------------726.5 ---------------1.87
Vancouver(City): ---5,039.0/km² -------------114.71 ---------------44.0

Calgary's urban sprawl is assumedly MUCH, MUCH bigger. Each Calgarian has approximately 24x as much space as a Vancouverite does, given City boundaries and population.

Let's do a Metropolitan Area calculation as well for comparison's sake:

---------------------DENSITY----------LAND AREA (SQ.KM)---------RATIO
Calgary (Metro): -----211.3/km² ------------5107.43 ---------------0.041
Vancouver (Metro): --735.6/km² ------------2877.36 ---------------0.256

Calgary's urban sprawl is, again, assumedly MUCH, MUCH bigger. Each Calgarian has approximately 6x as much space as a Vancouverite does, given each City's Metro Area boundaries and population.

Problems associated with urban sprawl? Perhaps, but not really what I was trying to discuss.

Extent of urban sprawl? Calgary wins this HANDS DOWN.

I'm confused. What does the "ratio" mean? Are the units of the ratio not 1/(km^4).... what is that?

If I want space per person, can I not invert the density to get:

CAL: 1/1360.2 = 0.000735 km^2/person
VAN: 1/5039 = 0.000198 km^2/person

The ratio between these two is 3.70. I would interpret that as each Calgarian having 3.7046 times the space of a Vancouverite, not 24x.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by OracleOfCalgary

Okotoks to downtown Calgary, 46.4km:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&hl=en...&cd=1&z=9&om=1

Okotoks is, and has always been, a seperate town. It is unfair to consider this as a 'normal' commute route, since comparatively speaking to the rest of Calgary, very few make that exact trip.

The majority of commuters live within City limits, and thus, traffic is created from the outskirts of the city borders inward.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by OracleOfCalgary

Langley to downtown Vancouver, 54.4km:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&hl=en...0454&z=10&om=1

Okotoks to downtown Calgary, 46.4km:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&hl=en...&cd=1&z=9&om=1

The population of Vancover's Metro area is also twice that of Calgary's Metro area.

What's your point?