5 killed on Macleod trail crash - Update: GUILTY!

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

This is just so incredibly sad. I just can't imagine the level of grief that the extended family is feeling right now. I mean, five people from the same family dead. Unbelievable.

A number of years ago, some cousins of my mom were killed in a plane crash. They were from Calgary, so I somewhat have an idea of what this family must be going through, but it just isn't the same. I'm at a loss for words.

They actually aren't from the same family...

The 16 month old was the female's child, the other two kids were the male's children, but they were not related.

That doesn't detract from the horror of this accident.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by FireFly

They actually aren't from the same family...

The 16 month old was the female's child, the other two kids were the male's children, but they were not related.

That doesn't detract from the horror of this accident.

No, you're right. I think it actually makes it a little bit worse. It means that there is still a mother and a father out there who have lost their children. I don't know how people can actually go on after something like this.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Somehow this thread became a drinking and driving thread. While I do see how everyone got to this point. We should all be aware that this guy was not drunk. He was not convicted of drinking and driving, thus he is innocent of that.
This while may or may not be true, is the evidence that we have to look at/through if were are going to be playing the jurors.

He hasn't been convicted yet? He goes to court on thursday, and both the witness reports, the fact that they have charged him with driving under the influence, and there have been police statements to the press today that there was alcohol involved. So ummm, he's not innocent of that, he merely hasn't been tried yet.

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

That said, reckless driving is a serious charge that will effect his whole life, knowing that he is a truck driver. He will more than likely lose his license for a long time, as well as go to high risk insurance making getting a job driving very hard once he gets his license back. I don't know how refusing a breathalyzer will effect him, but this guy is not going to be walking away scott free from any of this.
He may not get jail time, but his world has been turned upside down, and he also has to live with the fact that his actions led to the death of 5 people.

I'm not too concerned about his life being turned upside down, since he took 5 lives, and I hope he wakes up every night screaming. I'm sorry I'm not more sympathetic, however he made a choice, whether it was to have a couple of pops and get into a cement truck. Or whether he merely decided to drive like an idiot, its irrelevant.

Frankly in this case a big part of the consideration of the punishment has to be involved around making an example of this guy to hold up for anyone else who thinks its ok to have a few pops, get into your car and turn it into a cruise missile.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for this person, it was all used up on the victims.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

they have charged him with driving under the influence,

Not defending the the guy, but he was not charged with DUI.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Not defending the the guy, but he was not charged with DUI.

Your right I'm wrong, they charged him with refusal to submit to a breath test

However the news story today is pretty damning as far as drinking and driving is concerned

http://http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/2007/12/09/4715319-sun.html

I'm assuming that his condition at the scene of the accident will be admitted in Court on Thursday. The fact that he hasn't been charged with driving under the influence is moot at this point.

[4X4]

Whoever the drama queen back there about the police doing checks inside your house, give it up. An accident scene is an accident scene. Why shouldn't breath samples be taken? When we have a leading cause of accidents (alcohol) easily tested, it should be like taking fingerprints at a break in. It should be one of the rules of having a drivers license. If you are involved in a motor vehicle accident (as a driver), breath sample should be mandatory.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

These quotes scare me!
If I have nothing to hide, why not let the police do periodical checks through my home, make sure I'm not up to anything. Why stop there, videocamera with microphone in every room!

The second you have 5 dead bodies in your home, damn straight they will do that. He killed 5 people, imo it should be mandatory to have a breathalyzer when you are involved in accident. Refusing it pretty much means you were drinking and that's the only "out" you have, by not obliging. They can only charge you then with refusing to provide a breathalyzer. Either way, I have abosolutely 0% sympathy for drunk drivers or people who refuse to provide a breathalyzer because in my mind that shows you're guilty. I lost a gf on December 4, 2006 to a drunk driver. I know what it feels like to go through this.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Somehow this thread became a drinking and driving thread. While I do see how everyone got to this point. We should all be aware that this guy was not drunk. He was not convicted of drinking and driving, thus he is innocent of that.
This while may or may not be true, is the evidence that we have to look at/through if were are going to be playing the jurors.

That said, reckless driving is a serious charge that will effect his whole life, knowing that he is a truck driver. He will more than likely lose his license for a long time, as well as go to high risk insurance making getting a job driving very hard once he gets his license back. I don't know how refusing a breathalyzer will effect him, but this guy is not going to be walking away scott free from any of this.
He may not get jail time, but his world has been turned upside down, and he also has to live with the fact that his actions led to the death of 5 people.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...b16f4a&k=23136

"Police have said speed and alcohol may have been factors in the crash."

"The cement truck driver has been charged with five counts of dangerous driving causing death as well as refusing to provide a breath sample."

I find it hard to believe a sober driver would refuse a breath sample?

[J pold]

This is just so sad the women who was killed is survived by her 14 year old son, it reminds of that episode of Six Feet Under when they entire family dies in a car crash and the only remaining member of the family is a 15 year old boy…the speech he gives at the funeral is heartbreaking

I remember a couple of years ago my father was almost killed in a similar situation, he waiting at a red light on Blackfoot trail (The ones just past Heritage IIRC) when luckily he looked in his rearview mirror to see a gravel truck speeding towards him at the last minute he did a left hand turn into oncoming traffic to avoid the truck which he claimed was moving in excess of 100km/hour

[return to the red]

how can you refuse to give a breathalizer? What is the penalty for failing to provide one? If it comes down to if alcohol is even suspected of being involved it should be mandatory, mind you that being said if you spend enough money you can get off that charge anyhow (complete shingaurd)

[ken0042]

Not to deflect any of the blame in this tragedy away from the cement truck driver, but one thing that keeps replaying over and over again in my head is something that I learned in a driving course I took several years ago.

They talked about always being aware and looking out for people who are going to hit you; and how it is sometimes better to cause an accident to which you are at fault for than to be a victim of an accident where you aren't at fault. So in this scenario; if only the driver of the car could have punched the gas just before the truck hit him; if he could have even gotten up to 30 km/h the damage could have been worse.

Once again I say this not to put any blame on the part of the driver of the car; but more of a "something to think about" for the rest of us. Maybe in the future thinking about how to avoid getting rear ended might save the life of a CPer; or somebody that you love.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Not to deflect any of the blame in this tragedy away from the cement truck driver, but one thing that keeps replaying over and over again in my head is something that I learned in a driving course I took several years ago.

They talked about always being aware and looking out for people who are going to hit you; and how it is sometimes better to cause an accident to which you are at fault for than to be a victim of an accident where you aren't at fault. So in this scenario; if only the driver of the car could have punched the gas just before the truck hit him; if he could have even gotten up to 30 km/h the damage could have been worse.

Once again I say this not to put any blame on the part of the driver of the car; but more of a "something to think about" for the rest of us. Maybe in the future thinking about how to avoid getting rear ended might save the life of a CPer; or somebody that you love.

Like my parents always said "you could be the best driver in the world, it's the other azzholes you have to watch out for"

still, such a preventable tragedy

[J pold]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Not to deflect any of the blame in this tragedy away from the cement truck driver, but one thing that keeps replaying over and over again in my head is something that I learned in a driving course I took several years ago.

They talked about always being aware and looking out for people who are going to hit you; and how it is sometimes better to cause an accident to which you are at fault for than to be a victim of an accident where you aren't at fault. So in this scenario; if only the driver of the car could have punched the gas just before the truck hit him; if he could have even gotten up to 30 km/h the damage could have been worse.

Once again I say this not to put any blame on the part of the driver of the car; but more of a "something to think about" for the rest of us. Maybe in the future thinking about how to avoid getting rear ended might save the life of a CPer; or somebody that you love.

Ever since my father was almost killed in a very similar situation (see story in my above post) I have always been cognizant of the vehicles around me every time I stop at a red light I always check my rearview mirror

[ernie]

My condolences to the family. I can't imagine how unbelievably hard this holiday season will be for the loved ones involved. A damn shame and something that didn't need to happen.

Perhaps its because I pay attention to these things more now then I used to but there seems to be more and more accidents involving cement trucks and rigs in general. And unfortunately with cement trucks there is often only the most tragic result for the vehicle that gets hit.

In Halifax in the last year or so there have bee three incidents I remember.

A guy was killed on 233 near Hammonds Plains when he got struck with a full cement truck. I'm not sure but I believe the deceased made an unsafe left hand turn on that one.

In another one, on the Bedford highway a couple of teenagers lost their lives when they swerved into on coming traffic at precisely the wrong moment and went directly into and underneath a cement truck.

The other one was completely the cement truck drivers fault. It was a two lane exit and he couldn't make the turn. The cement truck flipped over right on top of the car next to it.

I'll be brutally honest, though only one of the above scenarios was the fault of the cement truck driver in Nova Scotia the drivers of cement trucks and rigs are terrible. I will go out of my way to not have one on my tail or even beside me (I usually did anyways but here it is almost imperative to do so or you will get hit if you have to stop short or by the truck driver not even bothering to chek to see if the lane is clear when he changes lanes). Unfortunately in the this case that wouldn't have mattered. You trust that people will stop at red lights and be in at least some reasonable control of the vehicle and their faculties.

As a general trend it seems to me that drivers are getting worse and worse. I think its time for mandatory driver education for people getting new licenses and perhaps even periodic re-tests when you come up for renewal. I think it is imperative that licensing for these big construction vehicles be strictly controlled and monitored. I also think municipalities have to think things through and make sure intersections are safe and any dangerous intesection reporst are taken seriously. If there can be any good to come out of such a tragedy I hope that this would be it.

[mykalberta]

IMO Whether the driver was drunk or not has no bearing.

He murdered 5 people: 2 adults, 3 children. Whether the reason was drinking or stupidity doesnt change the facts.

I do feel for the owner fo C&J whatever, I hope they have alot of insurance.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by fotze

I thought they got T-Boned?

I thought they got rear ended. The news reports said they were waiting at the light, and the pictures I saw friday night showed the back end of the car just completely crumpled.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Not to deflect any of the blame in this tragedy away from the cement truck driver, but one thing that keeps replaying over and over again in my head is something that I learned in a driving course I took several years ago.

They talked about always being aware and looking out for people who are going to hit you; and how it is sometimes better to cause an accident to which you are at fault for than to be a victim of an accident where you aren't at fault. So in this scenario; if only the driver of the car could have punched the gas just before the truck hit him; if he could have even gotten up to 30 km/h the damage could have been worse.

Once again I say this not to put any blame on the part of the driver of the car; but more of a "something to think about" for the rest of us. Maybe in the future thinking about how to avoid getting rear ended might save the life of a CPer; or somebody that you love.

I too wondered why he didn't notice the cement driver wasn't going to stop. Maybe he froze in fear for a moment and then it was all over.

Being aware of the other driver is a good thing. It's something I do when sitting at a set of lights. On icy roads during the winter I always leave space in front of me in case I have to move forward when the other driver can't stop in time.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I thought they got rear ended. The news reports said they were waiting at the light, and the pictures I saw friday night showed the back end of the car just completely crumpled.

They were hit from behind.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by fotze

The guy on the phone must have been too far back to tell who he actually hit.

Not sure, everything I was told / heard the car was at the lights and the truck hit them from behind.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Not to deflect any of the blame in this tragedy away from the cement truck driver, but one thing that keeps replaying over and over again in my head is something that I learned in a driving course I took several years ago.

They talked about always being aware and looking out for people who are going to hit you; and how it is sometimes better to cause an accident to which you are at fault for than to be a victim of an accident where you aren't at fault. So in this scenario; if only the driver of the car could have punched the gas just before the truck hit him; if he could have even gotten up to 30 km/h the damage could have been worse.

Once again I say this not to put any blame on the part of the driver of the car; but more of a "something to think about" for the rest of us. Maybe in the future thinking about how to avoid getting rear ended might save the life of a CPer; or somebody that you love.

Been thinkin that myself...As a driver you have to aware at all times because there are people like the truck driver out there...