First 5 Minutes of Golden Compass Available

[AC]

Originally Posted by cSpooge

He's not actually an Atheist he's Agnostic.

He's described himself as both actually.

I've seen him referred to primarily as an atheist, but the case could be made for either.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I hope Calgarians remember this next time the census-taker comes around and asks which school board you want your tax dollars to fund: the one that bans books or the one that doesn't.

I love this quote from the school board's spokesperson:



How could anyone say something so ridiculous with a straight face?

And you have that right, for the most part except for parents of kids going to a catholic school their tax payers go to the public sector.

As a private school they have a right to determine their curriculum and the books that go into their libraries.

So the anger over the removal of this book is invalid.

Edit I also call bunk on public schools not removing books

Some interesting bannings in public school systems, libraries etc

http://www.bclibrary.ca/bcla/ifc/censorshipbc/2000.html

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/...c=banned_books

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedboo...ngedbanned.htm

[MarchHare]

As a private school they have a right to determine their curriculum and the books that go into their libraries.

Calgary's Catholic School Board is not a private venture. It's a publicly-funded institution separate from the CBE, but it is not private.

[MarchHare]

Edit I also call bunk on public schools not removing books

Do you have a list of books that are currently banned by the CBE?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Do you have a list of books that are currently banned by the CBE?

I don't have one with me, I've attached links that have some books that were banned with public boards in general.

Off of the top of my head, the Calgary Board banned two books in 1997 on homosexual lifestyle.

I don't have time at work to do a search on it.

I also know that the Calgary Board of Education at one time fought to ban of mice and men, and Mein Kempf, I think that they were only re-enstated after a court challenge. I don't know if you can get Hitlers book to this day in the public boards libraries)



I'm fine with the catholic school board on this one, they don't think its an appropriate book based on their belief system, and they probably shouldn't have bought these books in the first place and put money in the writers pocket.

Again the book is available to these students, at any public library or book store, so I don't really consider it a censorship issue. Now that would change if one of the students was punished for having the book on his person.

But thats an argument for another day.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So the anger over the removal of this book is invalid.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/...c=banned_books

I love that in one of your links the first few paragraphs highlight how religion has been the backbone of censorship for centuries:

Twenty years after Johann Gutenberg’s invention, the first popular books were printed and sold in Germany; within another 20 years, Germany’s first official censorship office was established when a local archbishop pleaded with town officials to censor “dangerous publications.” In England, Henry VIII established a licensing system requiring printers to submit all manuscripts to Church of England authorities for approval and in 1529, he outlawed all imported publications. In 1535, the French king Francis I issued an edict prohibiting the printing of books. By 1559, in reaction to the spread of Protestantism and scientific inquiry, the Roman Catholic Church issued the Index Librorum Prohibitorum, likely the first published and most notorious list of forbidden books. The purpose of the Index was to guide secular censors in their decisions as to which publications to allow and which to prohibit, since printers were not free to publish books without official permission. At a time when society was dominated by religion, religious and secular censorship were indistinguishable. The Catholic Church continued to print this Index, which grew to 5,000 titles, until 1966, when Pope Paul VI terminated the publication.

Censorship followed the European settlers to America. In 1650, a religious pamphlet by William Pynchon was confiscated by Puritan authorities in Massachusetts, condemned by the General Court and burned by the public executioner in the Boston marketplace. The incident is considered to be the first book-burning in America.

The pioneer of modern American censorship was Anthony Comstock, who founded the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice in 1872. In 1873, using slogans such as “Morals, not art and literature,” he convinced Congress to pass a law, thereafter known as the “Comstock Law,” banning the mailing of materials found to be “lewd, indecent, filthy or obscene.” Between 1874 and 1915, as special agent of the U.S. Post Office, he is estimated to have confiscated 120 tons of printed works. Under his reign, 3,500 people were prosecuted although only about 350 were convicted. Books banned by Comstock included many classics: Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales, The Arabian Nights, and Aristophanes’ Lysistrata. Authors whose works were subsequently censored under the Comstock Law include Ernest Hemingway, James Joyce, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Victor Hugo, D.H. Lawrence, John Steinbeck, Eugene O’Neill and many others whose works are now deemed to be classics of literature.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow, just wow. You took a really big leap here didn't you.

So no... I do not think I took a leap. I think censorship in any form is wrong and it bothers me, censorship by religious institutions (regardless of severity) in order to further cement their dogma into the minds of today’s youth really bothers me. Censorship has been the tool of religion to control public opinion for centuries and the fact that not only are they not embarrassed by this fact but brazen enough to continue its use with a righteous attitude is incredible to me.

So to answer your question:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It’s not like the school library is the only source to get this book, and the students even have the right to go and see the movie. So where's the censorship here

Apparently in schools and religion, in this case a catholic school

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

I love that in one of your links the first few paragraphs highlight how religion has been the backbone of censorship for centuries:

Sure I've never argued that. But I have trouble arguing censorship in this case because its localized in the middle of a city with hundreds of movie theatres, and hundreds of libraries and book stores. I've also seen nothing that elicits punishment for the Students having the book.

They just choose not to carry the book in their libraries which to me is vastly different.

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

So no... I do not think I took a leap. I think censorship in any form is wrong and it bothers me, censorship by religious institutions (regardless of severity) in order to further cement their dogma into the minds of today’s youth really bothers me. Censorship has been the tool of religion to control public opinion for centuries and the fact that not only are they not embarrassed by this fact but brazen enough to continue its use with a righteous attitude is incredible to me.

Wow so your saying that the school shouldn't have a choice in what they carry in their library, especially if it runs counter to their religous based curriculum. In that case, then why isn't the public board carrying hardcore girl on girl porn. I mean its one of the most popular subjects in modern day publications? How dare they censor highschool students from learning more about sexuality.

This issue has next to nothing to do with controling the masses or pushing their dogma out to the general public. Its about choosing availability, and if the students choose to, the book is readily available elsewhere. The board has a free right to choose what books they will and will not carry. Shouldn't that right be defended as well. I mean they're not passing a message of hate or intolerance here.

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

So to answer your question:


Apparently in schools and religion, in this case a catholic school

Respectfully, I think this is a long way from a hardened censorship issue.

the only mistake that the Catholic Board made here was buying the book in the first place.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Respectfully, I think this is a long way from a hardened censorship issue.

the only mistake that the Catholic Board made here was buying the book in the first place.

You took the words out of my mouth, yet we still do not agree... if this were a conversation about the schools choice to not buy or stock the book at all this would be a completely different conversation. If it was a financial matter and they could not afford the book I'd have nothing to say... But they could afford it and they did buy it and they put it on their shelves to be available... and then they choose to remove it based on its content... and if there were no censorship at the core of this there simply would be no reason to do that...

Speaking of leaps, although I will admit the argument can slide into this territory of when is censorship ok and when is not and it can get quite messy, I was not trying to suggest schools should be illegally supplying minors with X-rated material. We are talking about a book that has *some* anti-religious symbolism in it not girl on girl porn. To speak to that though I think that morality and right from wrong should be taught at home. Children, as you pointed out, can find all sorts of morally challenging material in a city. I do not feel it’s up to the schools or anyone but parents to teach what is ok and what is not. Banning books and other legal material at school is pointless if the same principals are not enforced at home. Similarly if the home practices a set of morals and really walks the talk (e.g. dad doesn't say porn is bad while stocking the largest collection in north america in his closet), then a book being available at school or chapters for the child to find and read will have no real impact if they believe in the core values that have been instilled at home. Kids will test limits and test boundaries… often against a parents wishes and without their knowledge… but if the message at home is consistent and clear, what happens outside that door simply prepares them for dealing with different principles, choices and pressures in life. Schools don’t and shouldn’t raise kids… parents do… these days parents like to excuse their laziness by blaming the schools, TV and society for it all but it doesn’t make them any less responsible nor should it..

[psicodude]

The main problem that most people are overlooking here is that Bishop Henry (Calgary Bishop) made the call that this book should be banned. As you may remember, this guy has a major amount of power over the board (the casino fiasco, anyone?). To me, the major issue here isn't whether or not the board should be banning books. The issue is that one man has the power to be able to unilaterally decide that something is bad, and the board doesn't have the bullocks to say otherwise.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by psicodude

The main problem that most people are overlooking here is that Bishop Henry (Calgary Bishop) made the call that this book should be banned. As you may remember, this guy has a major amount of power over the board (the casino fiasco, anyone?). To me, the major issue here isn't whether or not the board should be banning books. The issue is that one man has the power to be able to unilaterally decide that something is bad, and the board doesn't have the bullocks to say otherwise.

Actually, Bishop Henry did not call for the book to be banned.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

However, not everyone in Calgary's Catholic community was jumping on the book-banning bandwagon.

Calgary Bishop Fred Henry said there are more pressing issues facing Catholics than debating a children's fantasy novel.

[cheevers]

Well to be fair to the Catholic school board, if Bishop Henry says one thing you should do the exact opposite for the good of everyone. If there ever was a man so outta touch, so hollier(sp?)-than thou, it would be that fellow.