Face of Canada changing?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by STeeLy

Thanks for the clear up. I had no idea that the members are mostly second generation Canadians, I always just thought its those rich asian kids that get sent (literally sent) here with a lot of money to get an education that join the gangs.

The rich asian kids sent here as foreign students are sent for a reason. They are the elite and are focused to do well in school so they can go back and improve their country.

It's the Asian kids born here, along with any other kid who is born here, that face the difficulty of growing up here and can be pressured into bad things.. smoking, drinking, drugs, gangs etc...

When in HS I dated an Asian guy who at first was ok but eventually headed towards gang-related activities. It was too much of a rush for him to avoid.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's the Asian kids born here, along with any other kid who is born here, that face the difficulty of growing up here and can be pressured into bad things.. smoking, drinking, drugs, gangs etc...

They have gangs in asia too you know...

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Table 5

They have gangs in asia too you know...

Yes but they don't get sent to Canada on student VISAs.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

^ Exactly



It may not be the most politcally correct thing to say, but from what I've seen, the other ethnic groups/eastern canadians/americans moving to the city in the last ~ year have really not done much than to make our roads more dangerous, our c-train more dirty, our streets less safe, and our city less friendly. At least 95% of Asian immigrants mind their own business and are relatively polite

Wow, way to follow up one of the more ignorant posts I've ever read with one that is just as bad.

Care to break down your stereotyping even further?
Please tell me, which asians, are the 5% that are causing trouble with all of the newfies/americans/whoever else.

Is it the Chinese that make up that 5%, or maybe Japanese? Indians, Pakistanis, Kazakstanis?

Serioulsy, I'd really like to know who it is I should be opposed to letting into the country.

[PsYcNeT]

There is a no specific grouping or ethnic that is causing all this gargbage.

It is a collective of people who stuff themselves into a city they don't give a damn about to make money and then go back to wankerville, wherever when they are done.

If you can prove to me that the cities rising muder, rape, and robbery rates can be attributed to anything but the sudden influx of people, please, do so.

But if you live here, and spend time on the train/downtown/up north (not in an isolated SW suburb) you know that the demographic is shifting, and it's not scary yet, but it is not getting any more comfortable either.

My whole point is almost all the Asiatic immigrant i've encountered that have moved here recently have been generally good people. I have not had the same experience with the myriad of others.

[redforever]

Whenever a thread like this opens, it starts more fear mongering about what immigrants bring to this country. I wish people were fitted with proper prescription glasses so they could actually see the whole picture.

[PsYcNeT]

I think the point you are missing is that I'm not inherently against immigration in any way.

However, I do believe it should be better regulated, and should offer more opportunities to those who are educated and functional, rather than those who want a free meal ticket and a ride on the social security carpet.

For the record, before people brign out the Hitler/Nazi racism tirades, I am a Jew engaged to an Asian whose best friend is from Sudan.

That said, it's obvious we can't stop people friom moving to Alberta, and bitching about it doesn't do anything either. Regardless, it does not mean we have to give ourselves over to incivility and laziness, as well as allow our city to be ravaged and abandoned by people who just don't give a damn.

And Shantz, that 5%?

They're the jerks. And every culture has them.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

There is a no specific grouping or ethnic that is causing all this gargbage.

It is a collective of people who stuff themselves into a city they don't give a damn about to make money and then go back to wankerville, wherever when they are done.

If you can prove to me that the cities rising muder, rape, and robbery rates can be attributed to anything but the sudden influx of people, please, do so.

But if you live here, and spend time on the train/downtown/up north (not in an isolated SW suburb) you know that the demographic is shifting, and it's not scary yet, but it is not getting any more comfortable either.

My whole point is almost all the Asiatic immigrant i've encountered that have moved here recently have been generally good people. I have not had the same experience with the myriad of others.

Wow, so you say that there is no specific group that is causing all of these problems and yet you claim that "Asians" (probalby the most diverse and useless "ethnic" grouping anyone could come up with) aren't part of the problem.

I don't have to prove the rising problems in our city are not caused by the influx of people. I'm not making that claim, as it is irrelvant to my point.


You're the one making claims along the lines of everybody but asians just come here to expoit the city and don't give a damn about it, and are just making things worse.
I think a much less ignorant view would be that immigrants from all areas are diverse, and that most want to come and make better lives for themselves but with that comes folks who want to take the easy way out, or come unprepared and become a burden on the city. And the exact same could be said for people who are born and raised here.

You think you don't sound like an ignorant biggot because you preffaced it with saying how great you think Asians are, but your not. In the group that isn't "Asian" that you think are causing all the problems are blacks, jews, Mexicans, and a whole plethora of other groups. Try singalling one of them out and saying something like
I like asians, but don't let any blacks in because they are just plugging up the C-train, and see what kind of response you get.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The rich asian kids sent here as foreign students are sent for a reason. They are the elite and are focused to do well in school so they can go back and improve their country.

That's not completely accurate. At the public junior and senior high school here in Drumheller there's a fairly large foreign student population. It's the pet project of the school's principal and was initiated to help bolster sagging enrollment numbers from the local population. There are students from around the world that live in residence at the school, and in some cases are here for two or three years.

The reasons they are here are nearly as varied as the students. Some are here because they want to become Canadians (particularly true with Mexican students), some are here for the life experience (Europeans and Aussies), many are here because it improves their chances of getting into a post secondary institution in Canada if they've taken their high school here (applies to any of them) and yet others are here because they've misbehaved at home and have been sent abroad in disgrace (seems to particularly apply to S. Koreans for some reason).

To say any of them, asian or otherwise are academically elite and focused is not accurate though. The only common thread is that their parents are rich and can afford to send them. Daddy being rich doesn't make them brighter or more focused than anyone else, just more privileged. In fact, many of them are totally lazy and only here to party ... not all, but a lot of them. Possibly even most of them according to the reports my kids give.

The Mexicans seem to be the closest to fitting your generalization, but they're about the only ones. But othewise, wealth and privilege doesn't seem to make kids any smarter no matter where they're from in the world.

The views and experiences I've expressed of course only apply to the program here in Drum, but I suspect they may apply to a broader spectrum of foreign students as well. I have reasonable insight into the program because my kids are in classes with them everyday and have been for their entire junior and senior high careers, and I have discussed the program at some length with school officials. Overall it's a terrific program. It has accomplished the goal of boosting sagging enrollment numbers and thereby brought greater school board funding, plus it brings money into the school directly through the fees paid by the foreign students, and it provides a globally diverse ethnic student body in a rural Alberta school that wouldn't otherwise enjoy such diversity.

The only real problem I've seen with the program was that one year they ended up with a disproportionately large number of students from one specific country, which resulted in their forming a bit of a niche/gang that caused some negative things.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

My whole point is almost all the Asiatic immigrant i've encountered that have moved here recently have been generally good people. I have not had the same experience with the myriad of others.

Oh my bad, I didn't realize you were making broad sterotyped generalizations based on a limited number of personal experiences with a insignigicant number of the groups you were talking about.

I suppose that means that I'm wrong, and your opnions are in neither uninfomred nor prejidicial.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

That's not completely accurate. At the public junior and senior high school here in Drumheller there's a fairly large foreign student population. It's the pet project of the school's principal and was initiated to help bolster sagging enrollment numbers from the local population. There are students from around the world that live in residence at the school, and in some cases are here for two or three years.

The reasons they are here are nearly as varied as the students. Some are here because they want to become Canadians (particularly true with Mexican students), some are here for the life experience (Europeans and Aussies), many are here because it improves their chances of getting into a post secondary institution in Canada if they've taken their high school here (applies to any of them) and yet others are here because they've misbehaved at home and have been sent abroad in disgrace (seems to particularly apply to S. Koreans for some reason).

To say any of them, asian or otherwise are academically elite and focused is not accurate though. The only common thread is that their parents are rich and can afford to send them. Daddy being rich doesn't make them brighter or more focused than anyone else, just more privileged. In fact, many of them are totally lazy and only here to party ... not all, but a lot of them. Possibly even most of them according to the reports my kids give.

The Mexicans seem to be the closest to fitting your generalization, but they're about the only ones. But othewise, wealth and privilege doesn't seem to make kids any smarter no matter where they're from in the world.

The views and experiences I've expressed of course only apply to the program here in Drum, but I suspect they may apply to a broader spectrum of foreign students as well. I have reasonable insight into the program because my kids are in classes with them everyday and have been for their entire junior and senior high careers, and I have discussed the program at some length with school officials. Overall it's a terrific program. It has accomplished the goal of boosting sagging enrollment numbers and thereby brought greater school board funding, plus it brings money into the school directly through the fees paid by the foreign students, and it provides a globally diverse ethnic student body in a rural Alberta school that wouldn't otherwise enjoy such diversity.

The only real problem I've seen with the program was that one year they ended up with a disproportionately large number of students from one specific country, which resulted in their forming a bit of a niche/gang that caused some negative things.

That does sound like a wonderful program. I was generalizing more about the kids who get sent by their country directly to university are elite. I didn't even know that a family could send a child (under 18) to Canada for high school.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

There is a no specific grouping or ethnic that is causing all this gargbage.

It is a collective of people who stuff themselves into a city they don't give a damn about to make money and then go back to wankerville, wherever when they are done.

If you can prove to me that the cities rising muder, rape, and robbery rates can be attributed to anything but the sudden influx of people, please, do so.

But if you live here, and spend time on the train/downtown/up north (not in an isolated SW suburb) you know that the demographic is shifting, and it's not scary yet, but it is not getting any more comfortable either.

My whole point is almost all the Asiatic immigrant i've encountered that have moved here recently have been generally good people. I have not had the same experience with the myriad of others.

What rising rates, almost everything you mention, if adjusted for population, is decreasing over the past couple of years and is significantly lower then the early 90's. So if anything your theory might be true if reversed. The influx of immigrants has reduced the crime rate.

You can check the stats for yourself at this link:
http://www.calgarypolice.ca/news/stats_annual.html

[PsYcNeT]

So do you take offense to my sweeping generalizations or my percieved bigotry?

Maybe I should have just compressed the entire thing into

"There sure are alot of jerks moving to the city lately!"

follwed by

"Doesn't it seem like the people who move from out East and the US have poorer manners and jerky attitudes? I wish they sure were nicer!"

And really what it all breaks down into, in my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (dear god, we can form an opinion on one of those can't we? or do I have to travel across the world for 20 years before my opinion is valid) there has been a higher capicity of jerks and @$$holes moving into Calgary in the last year. Typically, jerks and the like follow money, and we have plenty of it.

To make this into an issue of racism and bigotry is pointless, because it's all about the sheer population of @$$holes that came for money. I'm talking about 20-ish ######bags with no education working in a chair factory, not an East African family trying to escape the harshness of their corrupt government.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Suave

What rising rates, almost everything you mention, if adjusted for population, is decreasing over the past couple of years and is significantly lower then the early 90's. So if anything your theory might be true if reversed. The influx of immigrants has reduced the crime rate.

You can check the stats for yourself at this link:
http://www.calgarypolice.ca/news/stats_annual.html

Those are up to 06, and have no bearing on the fact that Calgary has over 30 murders this year, compared with only 26 last year

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If Canada starts bringing in immigrants from Asia as hot as the girls in Tokyo, I look forward to this second wave of immigration. =)

Seconded!!!!

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So do you take offense to my sweeping generalizations or my percieved bigotry?

Maybe I should have just compressed the entire thing into

"There sure are alot of jerks moving to the city lately!"

follwed by

"Doesn't it seem like the people who move from out East and the US have poorer manners and jerky attitudes? I wish they sure were nicer!"

And really what it all breaks down into, in my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (dear god, we can form an opinion on one of those can't we? or do I have to travel across the world for 20 years before my opinion is valid) there has been a higher capicity of jerks and @$$holes moving into Calgary in the last year. Typically, jerks and the like follow money, and we have plenty of it.

To make this into an issue of racism and bigotry is pointless, because it's all about the sheer population of @$$holes that came for money. I'm talking about 20-ish ######bags with no education working in a chair factory, not an East African family trying to escape the harshness of their corrupt government.

I take offence to both. You make sweeping generaliztions that do seem quite biggoted.


There very well may be more jerks here right now, but that certainly isn't what I've experienced. But that is not the point anyway.

In your original post you didnt' say there were more jerks you said that most of the immigrants comming to Calgary weren't doing much more than making our trains dirtier, and our streets more unsafe (among other things) That sounds to me like a pretty scathing anti-immigration rant.

Add onto that the fact that for some reason you claim that "Asians" are somehow immune to this (95%). The fact that you're involved with an "Asian" girl, just makes it seem like you're saying "Everyone who isn't like me or my girl is causing all these problems".

The fact that you are basing this on personal experience doesn't make it any less uninformed.
What if for example i start telling everyone that Jews all think Asians are AOK, but that everyone else can piss off. I just had that experience with a Jew, so is it okay for me to make that claim?

Finally, add to that the fact that the majority of the gang violence that we're seeing in Calgary, which is direclty responsible for the rising murder rate, is coming from predominatly "Asian" gangs, and it would seem that there is at least circumstantial evidence that your preception is wrong.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That does sound like a wonderful program. I was generalizing more about the kids who get sent by their country directly to university are elite. I didn't even know that a family could send a child (under 18) to Canada for high school.

It also includes junior high students, so anywhere from grade 7 up.

It's overall a pretty good program. It's certainly an innovative approach to getting more funding and more students for what would otherwise be a diminishing school. Around the clock supervision is obviously a bit of problem ... imagine bringing together a bunch of teens from around the world and setting them up in dorms for a year or more. Can you say "Holy teenage mutant ninja hormones Batman"?

One of the secondary benefits of the program has been in athletics. All these international students have really boosted the calibre of some of the local sports programs ... soccer, basketball, volleyball. It has worked the other way too ... the high school football team finished second in the province in its grouping, and the team had a S. Korean kid playing centre. So he's going to go back home and carry an enthusiasm for North American football back with him.

[PsYcNeT]

The problem is, you're assuming I have these feelings because of one or two problematic experiences with specific groups of people.

Fact is, I see it every day. I live in Beddington, and take the Bus/Train/Bus to and from the Highfield Industrial Park every day. I run the entire gamut of creed, colour, and background 3 hours every damn day for the last year.

There are groups of people here for money and nothing else. They drive like morons, throw food/paper/garbage all over the train and downtown, and generally just act like self-absorbed visitors.

You are correct that making a sweeping generalization is typically incorrect, however, I think my recent experience gives me the precedence to say what I have been saying. In fact, I'm sure plenty of people have been running into a similar experience, they just are afraid to state it, lest they have their throats jumped down by the self-appointed PC brigade.

None of this is a tirade against any minority, it is a tirade against selfish, arrogant individuals who are only concerned with themselves and have no idea what it means to be part of a community. There are people who are used to having their cities be the crapholes of the world (LA, New York, Detroit, etc.) and think they can treat Calgary like that as well.

That is not okay.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Those are up to 06, and have no bearing on the fact that Calgary has over 30 murders this year, compared with only 26 last year

Murders are about the only thing. During the first half of 07 there were 3,933 attacks against persons compared to 4,573 by this time last year.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Suave

Murders are about the only thing. During the first half of 07 there were 3,933 attacks against persons compared to 4,573 by this time last year.

Perhaps you're misquoting, btu wouldn't 3,933 in the first half (6 months) of 07 be far more than 4,573 in 11 months in 06?