Having A Debate With Some Friends

[moon]

Originally Posted by Save Us Sutter

Every crime commited has different circumstances behind it and should be treated as such. This guy didn't hurt anyone. He is not a danger to anyone but his lungs. I'm going to assume this guy lives in N.S. where any marijuana bust is given a value based on it's street price of $10 a gram. So we're looking at 2500 grams of pot... a little more than 5lbs. WOW. Throw away the key guys.......


Pretty harsh judgement considering you know absolutely nothing about the guy other than the fact that he had some drugs on him. Bad or Stupid? Something tells me there are more options out there.....

Not saying one is better than the other, just pointing out that because this guy had 5lbs of weed on him does NOT make him bad, stupid or worthy of a jail sentence. Should we lock up pharmasists?

Yeah, yeah he knew the consequences. That is not up for debate. But we CAN debate the effectiveness/necessity of those consequences.

**Just want to mention that this whole post is made under the assumption that he had mostly weed and maybe a bit of LSD for personal use or whatever. LSD is certainly a much more serious problem (if you need to ask why feel free). I would still argue that a jail sentence would be overkill but obviously some kind of further punishment would be warranted.

Its great that you don't feel that pot is that bad, but it is against the law in Canada. Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the rest of us in Canada, laws aren't ignored because people don't think that they shouldn't be there or that the offense isn't that bad.

What Pharmacists do is legal why would we need to lock them up?

[CaptainCrunch]

You know, I don't think murder should be illegal, I mean I run into someone once a month that I think needs killing.

Frankly, I'm a good guy, I'm just a little mixed up, so if I go and kill some annoyance, there's no way that I should go to jail, frankly I'm just a little misunderstood.

I really hate cats too, I think that even though its against the law, there's nothing like a good cat strangling.

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by moon

I didn't say that pot was but that the people who are behind the growing/selling of it are harmful.

OK, fair enough, sorry to have misunderstood you.

Still not sure how this is true though.

If we were talking about any other drug I would jump on board and agree with you. Coke/Amphetamines make people aggressive and violent and can lead to assaults, murders, etc. Herioin/Barbituates make people loose all control of their lives and leads to crime to support their habit.

Weed makes people hungry and can lead to thumb pains from excessive video game playing. Where is the harm and why should we lock up those responsible for providing it?

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by moon

Its great that you don't feel that pot is that bad, but it is against the law in Canada. Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the rest of us in Canada, laws aren't ignored because people don't think that they shouldn't be there or that the offense isn't that bad.

What Pharmacists do is legal why would we need to lock them up?

What I am saying is that the laws as they currently exist need to be changed.

A pot dealer and a pharmacist are providing me with basically the same service.

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You know, I don't think murder should be illegal, I mean I run into someone once a month that I think needs killing.

Frankly, I'm a good guy, I'm just a little mixed up, so if I go and kill some annoyance, there's no way that I should go to jail, frankly I'm just a little misunderstood.

I really hate cats too, I think that even though its against the law, there's nothing like a good cat strangling.

Are you honestly equating murder or torturing animals with selling weed??

Have you ever smoked a joint? Did it cost someone their life?

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Save Us Sutter

Are you honestly equating murder or torturing animals with selling weed??

Have you ever smoked a joint? Did it cost someone their life?

met·a·phor /ˈmɛtəˌfɔr, -fər/ [met-uh-fawr, -fer]
–noun
1.a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

met·a·phor /ˈmɛtəˌfɔr, -fər/ [met-uh-fawr, -fer]
–noun
1.a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance

Great, where's the resemblance?

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by Save Us Sutter

Great, where's the resemblance?

Right here:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You know, I don't think murder should be illegal, I mean I run into someone once a month that I think needs killing.

Frankly, I'm a good guy, I'm just a little mixed up, so if I go and kill some annoyance, there's no way that I should go to jail, frankly I'm just a little misunderstood.

He's not comparing murder to drugs. MQS in the first post said that the guy's friends don't think he should do time just cuz hes a good guy, where as MQS thinks he should do time, because, as much of a good guy as he may be, he still violated the law.

CC is using the good guy with other examples of violating the law. Just because he's a good guy doesn't mean having $25k of illegal narcotics or murdering someone is right.

Correct me CC, if I'm wrong.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Frankly, to me the majority of those drugs are going to end up going to kids and thats my problem with drug dealers.

Why do you think this?

I'm not actually going to do research on this, but I'm pretty sure that the people that are over 18 use a hell of a lot more of the illegal drugs in this country than the people under 18. So the majority of those drugs are not going to end up going to kids.

I don't know if this guy should go to the clink or not, but he shouldn't go based on the old "it's for the children" routine.

We have this idea that a "drug dealer" is some dude hanging outside a playground forcing his wares on innocent and unsuspecting children.

High school stoners and the Occasional-Peer-Pressure Club don't have the loot to keep the drug business humming along.

[Ford Prefect]

I live in Drumheller, and one of the nice aspects of a small town is you pretty much know who does what. Plus, I have two kids in high school so they have pretty good insight into the drug habits of teens in the community. I'd estimate, with a fair bit of confidence, that 90 per cent of the drugs used in the valley are used by people over the age of 25. That includes everything from pot to crack and meth. If you want, you can count booze as a drug too, which it is. I can't prove that the situation in Drum is representative of the whole province, and I'm sure drug consumption is higher among adults here than most places due to the families of inmates at the pen living here. I'd wager that the majority of drugs in this province, and nation, are consumed by adults though, and I agree with RougeUnderoos on this.

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by STeeLy

Right here:


He's not comparing murder to drugs. MQS in the first post said that the guy's friends don't think he should do time just cuz hes a good guy, where as MQS thinks he should do time, because, as much of a good guy as he may be, he still violated the law.

CC is using the good guy with other examples of violating the law. Just because he's a good guy doesn't mean having $25k of illegal narcotics or murdering someone is right.

Correct me CC, if I'm wrong.

I get that, I really do.

But to me, it's not that simple. The law being broken IS a factor.

If a "nice guy" killed my little brother, I would want him put in jail.
If a "nice guy" sold my little brother some pot, I wouldn't.

Edit: Most drug dealers I have come across won't sell to kids anyway. Not cause they're good people but because if the kid gets busted they're going to rat them out to save their own butt. The people in high schools selling pot for the most part get it from their parents or other family members... but that is a whole other discussion alotogether.

By the way, I know from the way I am talking I sound like a druggie myself. For the record, I am not, though I did my share of experimenting when i was 19-23ish. I do, however, have a pretty good understanding of how things go on due to some family members having significant drug problems.

[flylock shox]

Chiming in late: I don't know what this guy would be facing in Alberta, but I can tell you he'd be looking at a 12 month conditional sentence order in BC assuming he had no record.

Sounds like he's just a courier, but a courier who's been entrusted with a large amount of product - suggesting he's been involved for a while and this is not the first time he's done this.

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by fotze

I was more like:

hy·per·bo·le /haɪˈpɜrbəli/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hahy-pur-buh-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun Rhetoric. 1.obvious and intentional exaggeration. 2.an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

That's what I was thinking as well.

But either way it didn't prove a thing to me.

[CaptainCrunch]

Bottom line to me with the murder metaphor is that murder like possession with a quantity for distribution is against the law. unless one or the other is made legal, doing it is against the law.

Now you can debate about whether drugs should be against the law or not, but that doesn't come into play at all in this debate.

I don't care whether he's a nice guy or not, people don't have 5 pounds of grass or distribution level quantities of any drug in their car unless they're carrying it for or are dealers.

to me people who make money on the drug trade are scum, whether they're selling it to kids (and I've seen that), or selling it to addicts they need to be removed from society.

Did I exaggerate my example, sure, but going on the strictness of breaking the law, to me it makes sense.

Hey, I'd be all for legalizing grass as long as it was treated like Alcohol, there were severe penalties for selling it to kids under 18, and there was a no sell list if you've ever applied for rehab or treatment.

And yes, I did smoke in the past when I was young and stupid, and didn't like the feeling that it gave me, and when I was older I gave up drinking except for the very rare occasions because I liked it way to much.

If the friend had a joint in his car, or residue in his ashtray, then I would give him the benefit of the doubt, but based on what he was carrying, to me, if in court its proven that he was dealing or carrying for a dealer then he's not a good guy, and should go to prison.

[CrusaderPi]

So a hyperbolic metaphor? Partial credit? No?