Blackjack - Card Counting

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Fair enough... thats why I said most places on the strip (I've heard), not all... and certainly not at casino's off the strip.

I would "bet" thats why most of the locals play at off strip casinos too.
like the Palace Station etc.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by ericschand

My understanding is that the casinos will now change the
deck part way through. They will never let it get down to
the point where card counting will be effective. In general,
it's later in the deck, when you know what the odds will be
for cards in your favour to fall, that's when you make
sizeable bets.

The pattern of small bets early turning to large bets later
will catch any casinos attention, and you'll be "asked" to
leave.

Most card counters lose money. Very few will make money.
You have to be very good at maintaining the count in a
high stress, high distraction environment. Plus, you have to
make it look like you aren't even counting. I hear what you're saying concerning the difficulty of maintaining the count/focus... we're practising a lot at doing just that, quickly counting and keeping the count in your head.

Many systems will close the house gap, but not remove it.
You may end up with a 50.5/49.5 favour for the house.

Find the book "Bringing Down the House" about the MIT
counting team(s). Read what they went through.

ers

Well... technically speaking (and depending on the specific rules of the BJ game you're playing), if you play perfect 'basic strategy' the house should have around 1% or less advantage on the player (even 0.5%), again depending on the house rules. The point of counting is to try and push the .5-1% advantage of the House into a .5-1% advantage for the player.

Counting certainly 'works'... the problem I'm finding is more concerning getting caught doing it than being successful at it.

[REDVAN]

Counting is hard, my brother does the simplest method and he actually can do quite well with it. I go with him sometimes and he tell me how to bet.

I do decently at blackjack by following patterns in the cards, and so I like to sit at 3rd base. Try it out, without counting.

[burn_baby_burn]

There was a Canadian movie called The Last Casino about college students who start a black jack team. I thought it was pretty good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Casino

[CaramonLS]

Are there any places that do single deck in Calgary?

I thought most of them did the 5 deck/auto shuffle making it impossible to get an edge with counting.

[Grunt]

The book "Knock-Out Blackjack: The Easiest Card-Counting System Ever Devised" is excellent for helping beginners a) learn basic blackjack strategy, and then b) count cards. I'd recommend it.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Are there any places that do single deck in Calgary?

I thought most of them did the 5 deck/auto shuffle making it impossible to get an edge with counting.

There's a lot of 5-6 deck games in Calgary (I'm no expert though), I'm not sure if there are any that use less than 5-6. No auto-shuffling though (anywhere I've been), dealer shuffles every time. An auto-shuffler would definitely make it impossible to count, but I don't think those are very common, especially at the $2-$5 tables.

The one thing I've learned so far... it works. 2 nights in and my buddy and I are up about $300, after starting with $40 myself and $20 for him. The pit bosses paid a lot of attention to us right away the second night we went (went to the same place 2 nights in a row). Guess I'll have to start mixing up my locale's!

[Sample00]

problem with betting in Alberta is the table limits.
since I dont play here that often, arent the limits redicuosly low, like 100.00 MAX?
in Vegas at least, you can work up your bets and table limits can be as high as 5 -10K, correct?
therefore, if your betting strategy is working, its takes no time to get over 100.00.
you can lose your money faster here, but it takes more work to recoup.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Sample00

problem with betting in Alberta is the table limits.
since I dont play here that often, arent the limits redicuosly low, like 100.00 MAX?
in Vegas at least, you can work up your bets and table limits can be as high as 5 -10K, correct?
therefore, if your betting strategy is working, its takes no time to get over 100.00.
you can lose your money faster here, but it takes more work to recoup.

Yeah... technically we're small fish so the table limits aren't an issue yet... plus the more we 'spread it out' the more attention we get (ie start betting minimum, wait until the count goes high, start betting high)... if you spread $3-$15 you won't garner much attention.. if you're spreading $25-$200 you probably will.

[troutman]

Casino Dealer: 17.
Number Two: Hit me.
Casino Dealer: You have 17, sir.
Number Two: I like to live dangerously.
Casino Dealer: [Hit for four] :21. Very good, sir.
[to Austin]
Casino Dealer: :5.
Austin Powers: I'll stay.
Casino Dealer: I suggest you hit, sir.
Austin Powers: I also like to live dangerously.
Casino Dealer: 20 beat your 5 sir. I'm sorry, sir.
Austin Powers: Well I must admit, cards aren't my bag, baby.

[jammies]

I used to count cards when playing blackjack, but the renumeration never seemed to be worth the effort. First of all, unless you vary your bets quite a lot in the course of normal play, it is quite easy to tell a counter, so you have the added complexity of making sure you move your bets around. Second, decks are cut quite shallow almost everywhere, so the count rarely gets to the point where it skews your odds very much. Third, it's a hell of lot easier to make money playing poker if you are good at cards and math, so why bother?

Now I just play blackjack without worrying about the count, and just taking the free drinks and entertainment out of it. If you play correctly, you will only lose (on average) around a dime on every $5 you play. The casino doesn't care, because the vast majority of blackjack players play poorly, and lose around 30-40 cents on every $5 they play.

[arsenal]

That's my thinking exactly. I play poker. That way, it's not against the house, it's against other people. It comes down to math, and being able to read people.

Instead of every other game in the casino, where it is basically a crap shoot.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Yeah... technically we're small fish so the table limits aren't an issue yet... plus the more we 'spread it out' the more attention we get (ie start betting minimum, wait until the count goes high, start betting high)... if you spread $3-$15 you won't garner much attention.. if you're spreading $25-$200 you probably will.

Didn't the MIT team have somebody counting cards. When the count got high they would signal another player who would come to the table and start betting high. So the card counter didn't warrant any attention?

[Temporary_User]

The only time I've ever gambled was when I was down in Vegas... Do all casinos (like here in alberta) give you free drinks as long as your gambling?

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

The only time I've ever gambled was when I was down in Vegas... Do all casinos (like here in alberta) give you free drinks as long as your gambling?

HAHA i wish, i'd live there if they did. The exception is the Poker Room though, seem to give out free drinks from time to time.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by arsenal

That's my thinking exactly. I play poker. That way, it's not against the house, it's against other people. It comes down to math, and being able to read people.

Instead of every other game in the casino, where it is basically a crap shoot.

Not exactly true... in poker in the casino's the house always wins, they take a rake of each pot played. Blackjack is the only game in the casino where the player can statistically beat the house (if they count).

Blackjack also comes down to math... you don't need to bother reading anyone. I like poker, played it a lot... what I'm more interested in is the mathematical edge the counter has over the house, and how much one can make taking money from a casino. If you're just betting for fun, then obviously go ahead and stick to poker (or whatever takes your fancy).

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Didn't the MIT team have somebody counting cards. When the count got high they would signal another player who would come to the table and start betting high. So the card counter didn't warrant any attention?

Yeah, that's why it's nice to have friends to do it with. I'll play the table until the count is high, signal to my buddy to sit down, and he'll start placing max bets on a table where the player (at the moment) has the advantage. Once the count becomes disadvantageous I signal my buddy and he gets up and walks away... ideally to another table where we've got another guy counting who's count is high and continues to place max bets until the count gets low, etc. That way everyone is always betting the same amount (spotters at the tables min bet, guy walking around to good tables max bet). Thats a bit simplistic, but the gist.